Sankyo Koki vs Sankyo Kohki vs Komura Ltd

[cyberjunkie]

After dedicating some time acquiring a number of Soligor primes, i turned my attention to Komura lenses.
They seem to be quite desirable, and the prices are often not so low.
I remember with regret a very nice Komura lens i used to own, actually one of the very few valuable lenses i ever sold. It was a 2.8/152mm for 4x5" in Copal 3, the faster lens to cover the 4x5" format with (a little) room for movements, along with the famous Schneider Xenotar 2.8/150mm.
I have no personal experience, but i remember i was told that the medium format wides for Bronica were very good as well.
Recently i acquired a Sankyo Kohki Super Komura 1:5 300mm in UNI Auto mount for M42.
I repost the pics here because the post on "What's the latest lens you added to your collection?" thread for some strange reason disappeared.
Sorry for the bad pics and the dust, it's vendor's fault





This is the first "UNI AUTO" mount i buy, i have a couple of preset "UNI" lenses, with a kind of T-mount that screws to the back of the lens.
Most of those i have seen have the UNI mount in Minolta bayonet, but i think i have at home a UNI ring in M42 standard, which should allow me to use all UNI lenses with my Pentax K-1.
I will physically get the 300mm in a couple of months, and then i will check how the UNI AUTO is made. I have seen online another Komura lens, possibly also a UNI AUTO, that was apparently missing the back of the mount, which seems to have been connected via a proprietary bayonet mount.
Here is a detail:



Am i right, is this an UNI AUTO lens with missing adapter?
Apart from a few UNI lenses, i own a couple more, very well made, branded Komura Ltd Komuranon.
I found on a Wiki page that Komura should have gone bankrupt mid seventies, but i own at least one late Komura Ltd in Pentax K mount, which means that the lens was manufactured a little later.
I don't own any, but i have also seen early preset Komura lenses marked "Sankyo Koki" instead of the later denomination "Sankyo Kohki".
Aprt from the useful catalog scans available on CameraEccentric.com, i didn't find very much online.
Any information about Komura, its history, late Komyura Ltd products, etc etc, is more than welcomed.
Marketing leaflets and optic diagrams would be very useful.
Thanks

EDIT:
After checking the catalog on CameraEccentric i found that yes, the pictured bayonet mount is the attachment for the UNI AUTO adapter, but it seems that there were two "families" of auto adapter, with different reference numbers: one is for the "Super Auto" lenses, and the other for the "Auto".
My 300mm is practically identical to the two similar lenses present in the catalog, one is called Super Auto and the other Auto.
One is model 30566 and the other model 30535.
The latter uses the same mount of the lens showed in the last picture (a 35mm), while the former uses a slightly different ring.
As the beauty ring of my 300mm says "Super Komura", i'm led to believe that i own the wrong one, and that it makes no sense to buy the 35mm without mount cause probably it would not use the one that comes with the 300mm.
I'm starting to learn that Komura mounts are a complicated story... even if i'm not caring about the removable mounts for medium format teles

cheers

Paolo

[iangreenhalgh1]

I've owned a few Komuras, mostly the later late 70s ones and to be frank, they are not good lenses.

[luisalegria]

I have and had several Komuras.
They are as usual a mixed bag.
The 300/5 is not very good IMHO. I have two examples, both presets.
There are preset and auto versions like yours. Maybe they modified the optics on the auto.
f/5 is too soft, and the thing isnt good enough even by my standards, much less Ians, until at least f/8.
It has the advantage of being very light and compact for its specifications, at the time.

The prize among Komuras, IMHO, is one of the humblest, the preset 135/3.5.
Its sharp with excellent bokeh and the golden-warm Komura rendering.
Among the more affordable-less collectible Komuras -
The 135/2.8, the 400/6.3 and the 90-250/4.5 older model zoom are all rather good.

[jamaeolus]

I have the 135mm 3.5 you mention. It is one of my better 135mm. Though that is a tough FL to excel at, as you say the bokeh is nice. I also have a Sankyo Kohki 200mm (I don't recall the max aperture). It is just OK. It is heavy and nicely finished but my copy is "well used". I lust after some of there fast short tele's like the 105 f2.

[luisalegria]

Komura had a 200/3.5, which is decent enough but nothing special, and two substantially different 200/4.5s, with different formulas. One is the M39 Leica mount rangefinder version with a detachable lens head, and a preset SLR model. Neither are very good wide open.

[cooltouch]

I don't know much about Komura except that they make better-than-average teleconverters, including some for medium format.

Incidentally, just in case you're curious about the different name spellings, Sankyo Koki and Sankyo Kohki, as a student of the Japanese language, let me hazard a guess as to what was going on.

Applying the Roman Alphabet to the Japanese language can, at times, represent a real challenge. For example, many Japanese words have geminated consonants and vowels (geminated is a $5 word linguists use, when they mean 'extended'), and the gemination shows in the Japanese writing systems. For example, the first syllable in Tokyo is actually geminated, so the 'o' is held for an extra beat -- To-o-kyo. But when Romanized, the indicator of gemination is lost. But sometimes you'll see spellings that attempts to include the gemination, and I think that's what Sankyo did. When they first brought their products to market, they were labeled Sankyo Koki. Then somewhere along the line, they decided to show the gemination. Well, doubling the 'o' wouldn't work, cuz it would spell "kooki" so instead they inserted the 'h' to indicate the extra beat on the 'o'.

Plausible, at least.

[visualopsins]

I've encountered germination in Chinese. The great inexpensive headlamp is branded BORUIT. I can imagine somebody trying to phonetocize (my new word) the English word Bright, spoken slowly. Lol!

[tb_a]

[iangreenhalgh1]

I just realised I have two Komura zooms, late ones, that I have never tried, I'll try to correct that and post samples.

I also have a late model 200mm, I think it's an f3.5, it's not a great lens and I'm not the best with long lenses, it definitely needs to be stopped down to f8 to produce the goods, and there are many 200s that are equally cheap but much better. I'll see what other Komuras I have and see if I can make some samples. I'm planning to slim down my collection soon and they are on the not needed list at the moment.

On NEX-3:

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#10 f3.5


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[cyberjunkie]

I don't have any of the non-auto ultra-fast series, but i guess they would be quite desirable, by today's standards.
For those who use Pentax DSLR cameras, like myself, preset lenses offer the advantage of being usable in AV mode, which i find preferable (most of the times) to the green button procedure.
Earlier UNI preset lenses seem to be very well made, and both the f/3.5 and f/2.8 135mm i have have above average image quality. Well worth the purchase, for the price i paid. I'm looking forward to machine a Minolta mount and convert it to PK. When i have a few primes in my bag, mixing PK and M42 lenses isn't neither fast nor practical. I've successfully converted a few glasses to PK (two Leitz Viso heads and two Trioplans, 50mm and 100mm) and i found that they are among my favorite primes. The K-1's implementation of the 36Mpix Sony sensor seems to work very well with vintage optics.

I own only two late Komura Ltd lenses, both in Pentax mount. They look quite different from the previous series. I found no clues about the change of brand name.
I didn't properly test the 28mm but as far as i remember it's very well made, in the same league of the first series of Pentax' bayonet objectives. Some little details reveal that it's not a "cheap" product, the square slip-in metal hood is very nicely made, and as far as i remember can be mounted reversed. It's held in place by a screw, though. Some people don't like this solution.
The other one is a 2.5/135mm of the same series. It is not as pristine as the wide angle, but it seemed a good performer when i briefly tried it.

Especially the earlier models give the impression of being more advanced of contemporary third party Japanese lenses.
Some of the early Tamron and Sigma products are quite rough in comparison, and have simpler optical designs...
I've found that i like Komuras, even aesthetically
Here is one with very bright colored engravings. It's a 3.5/135mm i've never tried. I will use the MD mount for conversion...



cheers

Paolo

[cyberjunkie]

Apart from subjective aesthetic considerations, i found that Komura lenses had rather complex optical designs.
No 4-elements short teles, and the wides are 7 or 8 elements, even the old ones.
My Komura Ltd KMC Komuranon 2.5/28mm has 9 elements in 7 groups.
Apparently there was a certain originality...

cheers

Paolo

[cooltouch]

[calvin83]

I have few Komura SLR lenses: 24/4, 35/2.5 and 105/2.0. Their build quality are quiet good compare to other third party lens at 60s.

[John Shriver]

I've got the Unidapter Komura 135/3.5, which I bought just for the Exakta mount on it. I ought to try it given the positive report here.

The reason I bought the lens/mount was to use the Unidapter Komura 100/1.8 on my Topcon. This is a very interesting lens. Pretty crazy wide open. Really a soft-focus lens.

I have the Uni-Auto Komura 200/3.5, and it didn't excel in a shoot-out. It has the Topcon adapter.

[Macca]

Some basic samples from the 35mm 2.5 .











The colours are a delight and I think Woodrim pointed out a while back it`s a very good lens in shorter to medium distances.

[Oldhand]

Sankyo Kohki Komura UNI P (preset) version 135 f2.8.
Lovely lens, great quality and good optics.
One of my favourite 135's
Tom


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[John Shriver]

Oh, that fourth picture in the original post is definitely a Uni-Auto lens without the mount adapter. The long and zoom Uni-Auto lenses are engraved Super-Komura on the beauty ring, the wide lenses are engraved W-Komura. (Unfortunately there are also Unidapter preset W-Komura lenses.)

I know of the following Uni-Auto lenses:

24/3.5
28/3.5
35/2.5
75~150/4.5
90~250/4.5
100/2.5
135/2.8
200/3.5
300/5.0

[spitzer]

[cyberjunkie]