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Canon FL and Canomatic R adapted to Micro 4/3
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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject: Canon FL and Canomatic R adapted to Micro 4/3 Reply with quote

I have sold all my DSLRs and am currently using a Panasonic LUMIX G1 with adapters for Nikkor, Takumar M42, LTM, and Minolta MD without any problem. While all work well, the Dollice adapter for Minolta SR works best.

I am having problems with a Fogta Canon FD to Micro 4/3 adapter for use with my Canon FL and Canomatic R lenses. Lens include two 35mm, a 50mm Canonmatic R, a 135mm, and a 200mm. All focus way beyond infinity. It reaches infinity half way through the throw.

Just FYI, I had removed the screw from the adapter which would close the diagram on the FD lenses. It is not necessary for FLs and was necessary to mount the 35mm f2.5 FL. I cannot imagine how that would affect focus.

Before I just try another FD adapter, does anyone have any similar experience? Suggestions.


PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Canon FL and Canomatic R adapted to Micro 4/3 Reply with quote

jmkmva wrote:
Before I just try another FD adapter, does anyone have any similar experience? Suggestions.

I've seen this with my Helios. Someone readjusted it in order to get infinity on Nikon bodies.
Have you by chance bought both from the same person?


If this is the case, when you mount it back on native flange/correct adapter, it will badly overshoot infinity (and MFD will suffer).
No adapter thickness variation will give this amount of error.

What you need to do, is to adjust it back.


PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Test them on a Canon FD film body?
Any will do, even a non-functional one as long as the mirror is down and you can focus on the ground glass.
Just to verify if the lenses have not been modified.


PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aidaho, Luis,

Thank you both for your comments.
It is interesting how far off focusing is on all four lenses that I obtained from different sources. I still have a Canonatic zoom to test.

I do not doubt Aidaho, but I find it odd that all the different sourced Canon FD lenses have been adjusted to Nikon. But I need to test to prove Aidaho right ... or otherwise Smile

I do not have any FL/FD bodies for a test. Nor any FD lenses. A body as you suggest Luis would be a good preliminary test. I will start there.

In case, are there any good tutorials on adjusting focus on FL lenses? I will likely leave the Canomatic alone.

Just for grins I might try a Canon FD to Nikon adapter on top of the Nikon to M4/3 adapter I have.


PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I can offer a way to solve this without buying more adapters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance

You are adapting FD to m4/3. Flange focal distance (FFD) for m4/3 is 19.25 mm
FFD for Canon FD is 42.00 mm.

Take a precision caliper and measure your adapter in three different places.
The values must be identical, and ideally will look like 42 - 19.25 = 22.75mm.
0.1mm is enough to throw off perfectly adjusted lens a hair past or short of infinity (a hair, not a half turn).

If your adapter is not anywhere near 22.75, we should light our torches, and burn the place you've bought it from to the ground.

If it will turn out as 22.75 after all, you are incredibly lucky scoring quadruple Nikon bingo Laugh 1


P.S. I've managed to pull off double Nikon bingo so far. My Industar 50-2 was readjusted too.


PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aidaho,

Great idea. I will try it out and let you know what I find out in a fwy days.

Thank you both.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your suggestion, Aidaho.
I did not use a caliper but it was not even close. I measured from the spot the adapter rests on the camera mount to the spot where the lens rests on the mount. Less than 21.00 !

I will try the lenses on a Canon FL/FD SLR when I come across one that can at least focus before trying another adapter. The Canon FLs can rest on the shelf where they have been for a while-longer.


Last edited by jmkmva on Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:35 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, that's definitely a wrong adapter for FD/FL.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmkmva wrote:
Thanks for your suggestion, Aidaho.
I did not use a caliper but it was not even close. I measured from the spot the adapter rests on the camera mount to the spot where the lens rests on the mount. Less than 21.00 !

I will try the lenses on a Canon FL/FD SLR when I come across one that can at least focus before trying another adapter. The Canon FLs can rest on the shelf where they have been for a while-longer.


Wow that's a bit extreme!

I've brought a MFT-Sony A adapter that was out by over 0.5mm, which proved a serious issue for the 10mm/2.8 lens I wanted to use it on. Infinity focus needed the ring turned nearly all the way to minimum.
I have subsequently added shims inside the 2-part adapter to bring it much closer to the correct value. - This proved a relatively simple exercise:
I photocopied the Sony mount on the adapter several times, laminated the photocopies & cut out the right shapes based on the image (including the screw holes). After unscrewing the adapter, I simply inserted the right number of laminates to bring the thickness up (IIRC I needed 3). adjustment of the adapters spring clips was also needed to get the lens to fit small washers under the springs did the job nicely.
All done for less hassle than sending the adapter back to the far east, let alone ordering another one or two to get one that's actually close to being right. I've improved several of my other adapters in the same way since now all are within 0.05mm (but all left on the short side).


PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slight adapter deviations from correct length could be a genuine mistake or manufacturing process deficiencies.

However, there is a valid incentive for a manufacturer to make their adapter a hair short. Deliberately incorrect, in other words.
The worst what can happen is properly adjusted lens will overshoot infinity, and MFD will slightly increase, but adapted lens will remain usable.

But what if lens is ever so slightly short of ideal setting (was carefully readjusted to the worn or imprecise mount in the past), it will no longer be able to reach infinity with proper adapter.

Instant 1 star review, refund, bad feedback. Who wants that?
I'm not saying they consciously do, but they sure have positive pressure to churn out shorter-than-correct adapters.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should be measured here


42mm (FD)
-19.25mm (M4/3)
--------------------
22.75mm (Adapter)

It will likely be shorter than 22.75mm, so the seller can guarantee infinity focus, but <21mm is way too short, you waste focus throw, hopefully you can take the adapter apart and shim it closer to the theoretical 22.75, 22.6 - 22.7mm should do, at any rate, let testing the lenses guide you.

I wish sellers would classify adapters on how close to the theoretical thickness they are, if it's 0.75mm short, label it -0.75, if it's exact, label it 0, if it's long by .01mm label it +0.01, I'd gladly pay an extra $5 to get the thickness I want.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:
I wish sellers would classify adapters on how close to the theoretical thickness they are, if it's 0.75mm short, label it -0.75, if it's exact, label it 0, if it's long by .01mm label it +0.01, I'd gladly pay an extra $5 to get the thickness I want.

After shimming two of my adapters, can confirm: the suffering is real, I'd pay an extra too.

Also, it's worth to check three times around the circumference. I have had an uneven one once.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for your comments. At first I wondered why I was having so much trouble with FL lenses. I have regularly used inexpensive adapters with no real problem.

DConvert, I agree 1.5 mm is a big error. I did remeasure using the method I described earlier in the thread. It is still unmistakeable over 1mm short.

Measuring the points Lightshow illustrated, the distance is much further off but too long.

I think we all sympathize with lack of greater consistent accuracy, but that might be more expensive than an extra fiver or so.

As an illustration Fotodiox sell a basic FD adapter for about $20. Their “pro” version is $60.

ADDED: 7/6/2018

As most suspected, there was a problem with a faulty adapter. All my Canon R and FL lenses focused properly on a Canon film SLR. Again thanks all.