vilva
Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 785 Location: Porvoo/Borgå, Finland
Expire: 2015-05-27
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Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: Extreme Bokeh with the Radionar |
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vilva wrote:
In a way I was lucky when I started testing the Radionar 4.5/105 on a dSLR. I just picked a length of macro extension tube which allowed for infinity focus and a reasonable close focus, not quite the 1m of the original camera because the tube was too short for that. The characteristics of a front cell focusing lens change all over the focusing range, and my setup happened to result in a reasonably good behaviour over its focusing range.
In the original camera, the position of the lens is fixed relative to the film plane, which means that the effective focal length must change in order to allow focusing at different distances. Supposing the nominal FL is 105 mm at the infinity setting, it must be reduced to about 95 mm in order to achieve focus at the closest focusing distance of 1 m. If the lens is mounted with an external focusing mechanism, a bellows, a helicoid or an adjustable close-range ring, the focal length and the corresponding characteristics of the lens can be chosen within this range using the front cell focus mechanism, and it occurred to me that this potential might well be worth testing.
So. I mountied the Radionar on the bellows, set the front cell focus at 1 m, which felt like the most promising alternative, and began testing. For me, the best bokeh would be the Gaussian one, but it isn't always so very easy to ascertain that the bokeh really is like that when viewing an arbitrary photo. There is, however, one rather fail-safe test method: pick a nearby highlight and focus at infinity. If the resulting foreground bokeh is ring-shaped, the background bokeh will be Gaussian. So I chose a scene and got a result like this:
Well, not too good, but the rings are there. So I focused at something nearer than the highlights and got this:
quite nice Gaussian bokeh, I'd say, spheres with very soft edges
So far, so good, but what would the result be in real life? Well, it is a matter of taste - like any bokeh. What ever is said about the bokeh, the result was very illuminating. There was a glow, which at the first sight would bring veiling glare in mind, but which after some examination was revealed to be just an unavoidable result of the Gaussian bokeh, i.e., Gaussian smearing of adjacent areas - it seems to me now that the old lenses aren't necessarily so much haunted by lens flare as by the other face of their good bokeh! Here is the first example, focus at the steps:
and another one:
and a final one within this posting:
These photos remind me of the photos taken with the meniscus but with a sharper focus and totally lacking the coma of my VPK Meniscus. There is another, very important difference between these two lenses: the characteristics of the Radionar can be freely chosen between this extreme and something even past the setting I had happened to originally bump upon. The dual focus mechanism Radionar is somewhat like the old adjustable soft portrait lenses now selling for hundreds of dollars or euros.
There are more examples at http://galactinus.net/vilva/retro/radionar_uf.html
Veijo _________________ Mainly Schneider-Kreuznach Radionar (1938), VPK Meniscus Achromat (1915), TTH Cooke Anastigmat (1917), TTH Cooke Aviar (1937), Goerz Dopp-Anastigmat III Dagor (1912), Voigländer Heliar (1928) or Aldis Uno Series III (1903 design) mounted on EOS 5D or EOS 350D |
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patrickh
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 Posts: 8551 Location: Oregon
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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patrickh wrote:
Veijo
You never cease to amaze - what a valuable asset you are for us all
patrickh _________________ DSLR: Nikon D300 Nikon D200 Nex 5N
MF Zooms: Kiron 28-85/3.5, 28-105/3.2, 75-150/3.5, Nikkor 50-135/3.5 AIS // MF Primes: Nikkor 20/4 AI, 24/2 AI, 28/2 AI, 28/2.8 AIS, 28/3.5 AI, 35/1.4 AIS, 35/2 AIS, 35/2.8 PC, 45/2.8 P, 50/1.4 AIS, 50/1.8 AIS, 50/2 AI, 55/2.8 AIS micro, 55/3.5 AI micro, 85/2 AI, 100/2,8 E, 105/1,8 AIS, 105/2,5 AIS, 135/2 AIS, 135/2.8 AIS, 200/4 AI, 200/4 AIS micro, 300/4.5 AI, 300/4.5 AI ED, Arsat 50/1.4, Kiron 28/2, Vivitar 28/2.5, Panagor 135/2.8, Tamron 28/2.5, Tamron 90/2.5 macro, Vivitar 90/2.5 macro (Tokina) Voigtlander 90/3.5 Vivitar 105/2.5 macro (Kiron) Kaleinar 100/2.8 AI Tamron 135/2.5, Vivitar 135/2.8CF, 200/3.5, Tokina 400/5,6
M42: Vivitar 28/2.5, Tamron 28/2.5, Formula5 28/2.8, Mamiya 28/2.8, Pentacon 29/2.8, Flektogon 35/2.4, Flektogon 35/2.8, Takumar 35/3.5, Curtagon 35/4, Takumar 50/1.4, Volna-6 50/2.8 macro, Mamiya 50/1.4, CZJ Pancolar 50/1,8, Oreston 50/1.8, Takumar 50/2, Industar 50/3.5, Sears 55/1.4, Helios 58/2, Jupiter 85/2, Helios 85/1.5, Takumar 105/2.8, Steinheil macro 105/4.5, Tamron 135/2.5, Jupiter 135/4, CZ 135/4, Steinheil Culminar 135/4,5, Jupiter 135/3.5, Takumar 135/3.5, Tair 135/2.8, Pentacon 135/2.8, CZ 135/2.8, Taika 135/3.5, Takumar 150/4, Jupiter 200/4, Takumar 200/4
Exakta: Topcon 100/2.8(M42), 35/2.8, 58/1.8, 135/2.8, 135/2.8 (M42), Kyoei Acall 135/3.5
C/Y: Yashica 28/2.8, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, Zeiss Planar 50/1.4, Distagon 25/2.8
Hexanon: 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 40/1.8, 50/1.7, 52/1.8, 135/3.2, 135/3.5, 35-70/3.5, 200/3.5
P6 : Mir 38 65/3.5, Biometar 80/2.8, Kaleinar 150/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8
Minolta SR: 28/2.8, 28/3.5, 35/2.8, 45/2, 50/2, 58/1.4, 50/1.7, 135/2.8, 200/3.5
RF: Industar 53/2.8, Jupiter 8 50/2
Enlarg: Rodagon 50/5,6, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, Vario 44-52/4, 150/5.6 180/5.6 El Nikkor 50/2,8,63/2.8,75/4, 80/5,6, 105/5.6, 135/5.6 Schneider 60/5.6, 80/5.6, 80/4S,100/5.6S,105/5.6,135/5.6, 135/5.6S, 150/5.6S, Leica 95/4 |
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vilva
Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 785 Location: Porvoo/Borgå, Finland
Expire: 2015-05-27
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Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:20 am Post subject: |
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vilva wrote:
Orio wrote: |
I must say, that I perhaps like better your previous setting with this lens. It didn't show this glare and the output was very sharp but in a smooth way and without the side problems of today's very sharp lenses.
I think I would say that in the previous setting, your Radionar was very much like my best ideal lens. |
Well, with this setup all the settings are easily available all the time, to be chosen at will, according to my mood and the requirements of the subject. It is also possible that the "ideal" setting slightly deviates from my original one, which was, after all, a quite arbitrary setting although a rather lucky one. I'll do some systematic testing later on, after I've thought about it a little bit. My gut feeling is, however, that there is no single optimum setting, only various compromise settings, two or three will go a long way.
It ought to be noted, however, that when the subject is exactly 1 m from the camera, the result with this setting here will exactly match my original one, and the further off the target is, the bigger the deviation. However, taking into account the fact that we want to manipulate the background bokeh, there must be a relatively far enough background so the focus target must be nearby, something like 1-3 m from the camera. Of course, we may sometimes want a kind of civilized meniscus effect for a faraway subject, and with this setup we don't need an extra lens.
On the other hand, setting the front cell distance scale at the approximate target distance and fine-tuning the focus with the external focusing mechanism gives results which match the characteristics of the original camera (within the cropped area, of course) but are more exactly in focus.
Veijo _________________ Mainly Schneider-Kreuznach Radionar (1938), VPK Meniscus Achromat (1915), TTH Cooke Anastigmat (1917), TTH Cooke Aviar (1937), Goerz Dopp-Anastigmat III Dagor (1912), Voigländer Heliar (1928) or Aldis Uno Series III (1903 design) mounted on EOS 5D or EOS 350D |
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