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Helios 44-2 VS Helios 44M
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:12 pm    Post subject: Helios 44-2 VS Helios 44M Reply with quote
It's Sunday, I've been a good boy and cleaned my apartment and I feel like I deserve to buy myself my first vintage lens. I already have a couple of older lenses that I got from my dad (three in M42 mount, three in Canon FD mount), in varying condition. I'd really love an M42/Canon FD mounted vintage lens in great condition. I've been looking at two Helioses.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Helios-M42-44-2-f2-58mm-RARE-MINTY-BLACK-CLASSIC-SWIRLY-BUBBLY-BOKEH-760605-/262605370824?hash=item3d247ff5c8:g:a-IAAOSw8oFXyNRx
and
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Helios-M42-SOLID-44M-f2-58mm-RARE-BLADE-MINTY-BUBBLY-BOKEH-SERVICED-7602022-/351828377001?hash=item51ea9afda9:g:FiYAAOSwFdtXyu3u

Now I'm well aware of the crop factor of these, as I have an Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark II, they'd basically become telephoto lenses, but I think I'll end up getting a focal reducer sooner rather than later.

SO, to the question at hand, which one should I get? They're both priced the same, and it seems they are in identical condition. I've read some other forum posts and it seems most people prefer the 44-2 over the 44M. What are your thoughts? Should I skip Helioses alltogether at this price point and get something else?


PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Used on a cropped sensor there should be no big difference .
Usualy people prefer the 44-2 because it has an 8 blades ( instead of 6 for the M) aperture and because it is continuous.
The 44-2 is also easy to dismantle for cleaning and maintenance.

The M is bulkier and heavier . So with an OMD , I would buy the 44-2.
Those lenses seem to be expensive in UK.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
memetph wrote:
Those lenses seem to be expensive in UK.

I live in Sweden myself, but I pretty much HAVE to import a Helios. But I have no idea of the actual value of these old lenses. I just sorta assumed a perfect one would be around €60.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
In my experience (not very extensive) there is almost no difference in image quality (sharpness, contrast, bokeh wide open). The 44M is a little less susceptible to flare and produces slightly warmer colours. Other than that, no difference. On the other hand mechanically they're quite different. I prefer the 44-2 because of its preset aperture, smaller size/weight and smoother focusing. Regarding the price, I just sold a 44M (with camera) for 30€. I thought I got a good price, personally I wouldn't pay that much.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I got two 44-2, one 44m and one 44m4 from tradera. 10-15€ apiece. The 44-2 design is my preference. If you search for Zenit cameras you can often find them with a helios lens for a lower price.

By the way, the Helios 44 is a soviet copy of the Biotar lens you got.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
blotafton wrote:
I got two 44-2, one 44m and one 44m4 from tradera. 10-15€ apiece. The 44-2 design is my preference. If you search for Zenit cameras you can often find them with a helios lens for a lower price.

By the way, the Helios 44 is a soviet copy of the Biotar lens you got.

Cool! That's really low. Almost all lenses on Tradera go for a lot more than that. But I am checking in on Tradera every day now.

My Biotar is most likely done for. It's REALLY hazy so the results you get with it are terrible.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi, if you're about to buy some serviced vintage lens, you may drop me a line.
http://uschovna.cz/zasilka/KU42AGNZHH2RGJU2-VEM/U63H38BAVM

Marek


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Marek wrote:
Hi, if you're about to buy some serviced vintage lens, you may drop me a line.
http://uschovna.cz/zasilka/KU42AGNZHH2RGJU2-VEM/U63H38BAVM

Marek

Wow, you really have a lot of vintage lenses. Do you have a Ebay store or do you sell privately?


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Holiace wrote:
Marek wrote:
Hi, if you're about to buy some serviced vintage lens, you may drop me a line.
http://uschovna.cz/zasilka/KU42AGNZHH2RGJU2-VEM/U63H38BAVM

Marek

Wow, you really have a lot of vintage lenses. Do you have a Ebay store or do you sell privately?

Both Very Happy

Not all of them are after CLA dismantle etc. as I have only two (now rather "one and a half") servicemen but I try to do my best Whoo Turtle


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Marek wrote:
Not all of them are after CLA dismantle etc. as I have only two (now rather "one and a half") servicemen but I try to do my best

Your link in your signature doesn't work for me, so I can't see your eBay store. Very cool lenses though!


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Holiace wrote:
Marek wrote:
Not all of them are after CLA dismantle etc. as I have only two (now rather "one and a half") servicemen but I try to do my best

Your link in your signature doesn't work for me, so I can't see your eBay store. Very cool lenses though!

Thanks for reporting so.

If you like some item just contact me via PM please Smile


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Holiace wrote:
blotafton wrote:
I got two 44-2, one 44m and one 44m4 from tradera. 10-15€ apiece. The 44-2 design is my preference. If you search for Zenit cameras you can often find them with a helios lens for a lower price.

By the way, the Helios 44 is a soviet copy of the Biotar lens you got.

Cool! That's really low. Almost all lenses on Tradera go for a lot more than that. But I am checking in on Tradera every day now.

My Biotar is most likely done for. It's REALLY hazy so the results you get with it are terrible.


The prices are increasing every day it seems. Your Biotar could be taken apart and cleaned, and if the coating on the lens elements has not taken any damage it will be as good as new. But on the other hand it's much easier and cheaper to get a Helios 44 replacement. I would go for that Smile


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
blotafton wrote:
The prices are increasing every day it seems. Your Biotar could be taken apart and cleaned, and if the coating on the lens elements has not taken any damage it will be as good as new. But on the other hand it's much easier and cheaper to get a Helios 44 replacement. I would go for that Smile


Yea, talking to a guy who is willing to privately sell me one for a lot less than £45. Thing is, I have no idea how to clear away haze. It could be the lens cement, between the elements, no? In that case the lens is done for Sad


PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, I've heard that cemented lenses can cause haze if they go bad, not sure your lens use it though.
The most complex lenses I have taken apart are a few 6 element planars. But triplets are about the only thing that I'm comfortable with.
And that's not even with the correct tools, just plain screwdrivers and a hammer. Not recommended! Very Happy


PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Holiace... I do not know how much postage is to Sweden but if you are willing to pay I will send you a mint Helios 44-2 FREE as I have 3 and won't miss it


PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
memetph wrote:

Usualy people prefer the 44-2 because it has an 8 blades ( instead of 6 for the M) aperture and because it is continuous.


Is it possible that there are different versions of 44m? My copy is also 8-bladed, just like 44-2. If I recall correctly, some later 44-m* do have 6 blades.
BTW, I got mine for 18USD and is in very good condition Wink


PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
i've ended up with a bunch of Helios, five 44-2 and four 44M, I like them, and if I see one cheap I get it. Rolling Eyes I've used them for many years on my Pentax K10, NEX5 and Sony A6000, and I've never been disappointed with a Helios. Mine are in good shape although most have some oil on the iris - which doesn't bother me at all. I actually use the worst lenses and keep the best on the shelf.

Is there a difference between the two types? Yes, but it's very little - both are sharp, both have nice bokeh. If I was shown two pictures taken with each lens I wouldn't be able to identify which lens took which picture. But....I generally reach for a 44-2 first.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hungrybear wrote:
I can tell you that Helios-44-3 is some better than Helios-44-2. Optically it's the same, but 44-3 has no monsterly backlash in mechanical construction, like all 44-2. The photo from 44-3 on Canon 450D:
https://fotki.yandex.ru/users/hungrybear/album/522920/

What backlash? Mine is tight, smooth, and sharp.
You have to be cautious with the 44-3, some have a lip that could prevent the lens from mounting properly.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jiaming wrote:
memetph wrote:

Usualy people prefer the 44-2 because it has an 8 blades ( instead of 6 for the M) aperture and because it is continuous.


Is it possible that there are different versions of 44m? My copy is also 8-bladed, just like 44-2. If I recall correctly, some later 44-m* do have 6 blades.
BTW, I got mine for 18USD and is in very good condition Wink

Most of the auto lenses moved towards 5/6 blades, a few have 7/8 blades, 9 blades on an auto lens is very uncommon.
I do believe that there are early 44m's with 8 blades, AFAIK all later 44's had 6 blades.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Again, my 44-2 works as it should, can you post a picture/drawing showing the backlash(or whatever)?


PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I guess I don't understand what you mean by "monsterly backlash in mechanical construction".


PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lightshow wrote:
I guess I don't understand what you mean by "monsterly backlash in mechanical construction".


Re. Helios 44-3,

Hungry Bear says pre-1992 lenses have interface problems, but ah've found lenses as far back as '86 and the general consensus is that pre-86, the 44-3 has a recessed , threaded (M42) mount. This can interfere with the focusing ring and prevent it from turning once the lens is screwed onto the adapter mount (for non-screw thread mounts). Post '86, this problem was ( mostly) resolved and the mount was now flush with the focusing ring, eliminating the problem. Wink


PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Are you guys talking about backlash in the focus mechanism? Because I just bought a used 44-M and it has significant backlash in the focus (ie you have to turn the knob a couple of degrees before motion ensues again when changing directions. It's probably one of the more difficult lenses I own to focus because of this. Optics are good though. I paid $27 for mine. They are cheap.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
TAo2 wrote:
Lightshow wrote:
I guess I don't understand what you mean by "monsterly backlash in mechanical construction".


Re. Helios 44-3,

Hungry Bear says pre-1992 lenses have interface problems, but ah've found lenses as far back as '86 and the general consensus is that pre-86, the 44-3 has a recessed , threaded (M42) mount. This can interfere with the focusing ring and prevent it from turning once the lens is screwed onto the adapter mount (for non-screw thread mounts). Post '86, this problem was ( mostly) resolved and the mount was now flush with the focusing ring, eliminating the problem. Wink

I knew that, I posted about that above, I'm talking about his comment about the 44-2.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hungrybear wrote:
Yes, and in the focus mechanism too, but it is normal for 44-seria. $27 is normal price for Ebay, on russian websourses it cost about $15-20.


Good to know. Thank you Hungrybear Like 1 small
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