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What is a really robust film SLR or Rangefinder?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't go wrong with a Nikon FTn or F2. The only downside to the FTn is very few still have operable meters.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NikonAIS wrote:
You can't go wrong with a Nikon FTn or F2. The only downside to the FTn is very few still have operable meters.


I had one, without the meter of course. Smile


PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:30 am    Post subject: robustness Reply with quote

the original question was whether there was an SLR or a rangefinder that one could toss into a car without worry

I maintain that robustness should refer to ability to take pictures regardless of age and that battery dependent ancillary functions may be disregarded.

-Yes, the Nikonos brick is not an RF and its fiddly spring-loaded battery chamber lid might hasten its demise, but the Leicas remain strong contenders-.

Apart from being more coddled, and sometimes resting on a shelf, a halfways fair measure of longevity would be to have a count of the number of working Nikons and Leicas observed in the wild divided by the original numbers sold. Assuming that owners were equally likely to still be using film.

p.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we're gonna include rangefinders:

For years, I've kept a rangefinder around for just this purpose -- being tossed around and taking it: The Canon QL-17 GIII. Its meter may not always be operable, but its shutter has never quit on me. Sometimes called the "poor man's Leica" it always manages to take good pics.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:59 pm    Post subject: Re: What is a really robust film SLR or Rangefinder? Reply with quote

kansalliskala wrote:
Currently I have a Nikon F-301, Olympus OM-10 and Canon T-50. All of them sort of electronic and/or fragile.

But I really want a camera that I can toss to a car seat and not worry if it bounces on the floor.


In the mean time ... did you make your choice? Or do you still need advice ... Rolling Eyes ?


PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:01 am    Post subject: Re: What is a really robust film SLR or Rangefinder? Reply with quote

stevemark wrote:
In the mean time ... did you make your choice? Or do you still need advice ... Rolling Eyes ?




Actually not, thanks for asking. I found out that a Minolta XG-1 is surprisingly robust combined with a half-case. Tried a Zenit ET for few weeks but it is just too rustic. Smile

This thread has its own life and is valuable in itself.


PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: What is a really robust film SLR or Rangefinder? Reply with quote

kansalliskala wrote:
stevemark wrote:
In the mean time ... did you make your choice? Or do you still need advice ... Rolling Eyes ?




Actually not, thanks for asking. I found out that a Minolta XG-1 is surprisingly robust combined with a half-case. Tried a Zenit ET for few weeks but it is just too rustic. Smile


Ah OK Wink ... If yours should fail I have a few spares here ...

kansalliskala wrote:
This thread has its own life and is valuable in itself.


Sure!

Greetings to Suomi Wink (actually the small tree shown in my websites "artaphot" logo was shot in the Pallastunturi area, many moons ago ...)


PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:38 am    Post subject: Re: What is a really robust film SLR or Rangefinder? Reply with quote

stevemark wrote:
Greetings to Suomi Wink (actually the small tree shown in my websites "artaphot" logo was shot in the Pallastunturi area, many moons ago ...)


I didn't know anyone come see "mountains" of Finland from Switzerland.
Or maybe you see them as nice hills. Very Happy


PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: What is a really robust film SLR or Rangefinder? Reply with quote

kansalliskala wrote:

Or maybe you see them as nice hills. Very Happy


That's quite accurate Wink

However, it's much calmer up there in the north, compared to our mountains ...


PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:41 am    Post subject: calmer is not just highwinds Reply with quote

how about mosquitos and gnats. On a long walk from the finnish border out to the Norwegian fjords wdedecided to walk at night, since the biting inhabitants were less active then.

p.


PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:00 am    Post subject: on topic Reply with quote

so in addition to this geographical digression I should add at that time my robust machine was a leica IIIc with its collapsible summicron, which fit snugly into my anorak breast pocket unperturbed by the gnats that managed to sneak through the wrinkkles of its elastic wrist covers- The camera would not have taken kindly to being submerged, but did stand up to being knocked about.

p.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: on topic Reply with quote

paulhofseth wrote:
how about mosquitos and gnats. On a long walk from the finnish border out to the Norwegian fjords wdedecided to walk at night, since the biting inhabitants were less active then.

p.


Uhhm ... my then girlfriend (she had been working in Finland for about one year) was wise enough to suggest a first visit in Feb/March, which was great. A second time we went there in October, no problems with gnats and midges as well ...

paulhofseth wrote:
so in addition to this geographical digression I should add at that time my robust machine was a leica IIIc with its collapsible summicron, which fit snugly into my anorak breast pocket unperturbed by the gnats that managed to sneak through the wrinkkles of its elastic wrist covers- The camera would not have taken kindly to being submerged, but did stand up to being knocked about.

p.


I was using one my trusty Minolta 9000 cameras back then, with only a MinAF 2.8/20, the 1.4/50 and the 2.8/200 APO G. There was never a problem with the camera/lenses, even at around -25° when I was shooting the small tree now seen in the artaphot logo ...

S


PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:40 pm    Post subject: robustness as climate toleration Reply with quote

gnats would not affect cameras, but in my experience, even mild, minus 10C ,conditions necessitated wrapping the camera well when entering a warm room or the lens would fog up internally and be unusable for quite a long time. Happened once to one of my takumars, Nice snaps of skiing and snow crystals however.

So for ultimate weather resistance I still recommend the Nikonos. to me it is not just about the satisfaction of owning the most robust device of its species sitting on a shelf, but it entails that in particularly inclement weather I take an Ilford XP out of the fridge and go out to take pictures.

p


PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: robustness as climate toleration Reply with quote

paulhofseth wrote:
gnats would not affect cameras, but in my experience, even mild, minus 10C ,conditions necessitated wrapping the camera well when entering a warm room or the lens would fog up internally and be unusable for quite a long time.


Yes, that's a common problem ... but even a Nikonos would be unusable in said conditions: The outside of the lens (and the viewfinder) would just mist over ...

That said, the Minolta 9000 was remarkably unshaken by low temperature. Of course Ni-Cd accus were a must both in Finland as well as (during winter times) in Swiss mountains.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:41 pm    Post subject: cold conditions Reply with quote

Yes, condensation on the outside but not inside and that clears up with heat-

Nicads were not particularly effective in the cold, For my Beaulieu S.8 I soldered together some accumulators to keep in my reasonably warm pocket with a long lead to the camera, but to keep the quite large schneider vario something from condensation afterwards was another matter

p.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: cold conditions Reply with quote

paulhofseth wrote:

Nicads were not particularly effective in the cold
p.


Sure ... but better than ordinary batteries Wink

Remember that the 9000 did not have a built-in winder or motor for film advance; thus its energy consumption was quite limited, especially if AF was turned off! I remember that using AF at temperatures <-5°C was cumbersome, but taking images was never a problem.

S


PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: cold conditions Reply with quote

paulhofseth wrote:

Nicads were not particularly effective in the cold
p.


Sure ... but better than ordinary batteries Wink

Remember that the 9000 did not have a built-in winder or motor for film advance; thus its energy consumption was quite limited, especially if AF was turned off! I remember that using AF at temperatures <-5°C was cumbersome, but taking images was never a problem.

S


PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every camera can have problems.
Best chioce is a mechanical body but only when it were in use and not stored for years.

A Kodak Retina IIa is one of the most solid camera and very easy to repair when something happens.
It as excellent lenses, Xenon or Heligon 2/50. The folded body is very small and you can carry it in your pocket.
The pictures are in the top level, you can´t distinguish it from pictures made by a Nikon, Leica, Canon etc.

When you find one which have had a complete maintenance and lubed with the new syntetic greases and oils the shutter and other mechanical part won´t be stick anymore again.


PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a nearly mint Canon EOS 1N, you could call that robust too. Wink


PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nikon F3. It will outlast most of its present, previous and original owners.


PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kansalliskala wrote:
I bought a nearly mint Canon EOS 1N, you could call that robust too. Wink


And sold that too ... it was heavy, I had film in it for 6 months and took about 2 pictures.

Now I stick to my trusty champagne Konica C35 EF3, that is sort of rangefinder: you first find the range and then set the zone.


PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another vote for the battery independent F2 with it's stepless mechanical shutter speeds.

The F3 not so much~ not much better than a paper weight with dead batteries.
The lone single M shutter speed with dead batteries gets old pretty fast.
I prefer the F2 viewfinder over the F3.

Or a Nikkormat FT-2 with similar battery free reliability...
It's focusing screen is an improvement over the Nikkormat FT-n.

-D.S.


PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The original question was for a camera that can be treated roughly without sustaining damage.

Most robust camera models mentioned will indeed still work after several significant bumps and shocks, but whether focus/collimation is still spot on would be a different matter.

Rangefinder focus mechanisms are relatively fragile with respect to accurate alignment, and the exacting focus screen position and mirror alignment in SLR's is also quite susceptible to misalignment when treated roughly. You are often talking about (in the case of SLR's sometimes fairly heavy) components that are held in a calibrated position to a ~10 micron accuracy by nothing more than a few tiny set screws.


PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2023 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RokkorDoctor wrote:
The original question was for a camera that can be treated roughly without sustaining damage.

Most robust camera models mentioned will indeed still work after several significant bumps and shocks, but whether focus/collimation is still spot on would be a different matter.


I have had a few nikkormats and at least one F2 here with severely dented pentaprisms. All focused within normal parameters. That particular F2 was severely beaten. It had seen a lot of heavy use. It was still taking great photographs when I sold it off.
There was one story out of Vietnam of either an F- FT-n or a nikkormat ftn taking a 7.62 x 39mm AK or SKS round. Of course the shutter was ruined, but the film inside it yielded usable images up to the last frame before being hit. That camera saved the users life.

-D.S.


PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't read the whole thread so if it's a repeat...well it bears repeating. Nikon FM2n.