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What is a really robust film SLR or Rangefinder?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tb_a wrote:
cooltouch wrote:
Interesting, Thomas. So you prefer your X-500 over your XD-7? It's an XD-11 here in the States, and I'd have to say that, for me, it's a tough call between the two as to which I prefer. Yes, my X-570 has TTL flash, and its viewfinder may be brighter than my XD-11's, but I really love the cool factor of the older camera and the excellence of its build quality. However, I'll admit that I do prefer the X-570's manual mode over that of the XD-11's.


Michael, I have to admit that the XD7/11 is very cool and the shutter is smoother as well. However, for practical reasons (as already explained) I really prefer the X-500/570.


Both the XD series as well as the X500/X700 series are very useful SLRs. The XD series feels more "noble", the X-500/X-700 with Motor Drive MD-1 certainly is much easier to use, especially if circumstances are a bit rough. The ergonomics of the X-700/X-500 & MD-1 are very good, much better than the Nikon F3 & MD4 Motor. Of course the MD-1 makes rather loud and disturbing sounds, but that's another story.

Both series have their quirks; the XD is prone to a failure of the mirror damping system, resulting in sluggish and delayed shutter release; the entire X-700/-500/-300 series can have problems with their capacitors.

Since these cameras are cheap and easy to replace, they certainly are a good choice if reliability is not the top priority.

Stephan


PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teo wrote:

...
Don't forget the T series of Konica

...


I have about a dozen classical T series Konicas (T, T2, T3, T3new) here; they usually came with a lens i wanted to have. Roughly half of them (!) have a stuck shutter. These days, I would not recommend them as a "reliable SLRs" any more.

Stephan


PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemark wrote:
Teo wrote:

...
Don't forget the T series of Konica

...


I have about a dozen classical T series Konicas (T, T2, T3, T3new) here; they usually came with a lens i wanted to have. Roughly half of them (!) have a stuck shutter. These days, I would not recommend them as a "reliable SLRs" any more.

Stephan


...and I wonder how many Konica FS-1 and FT-1s have been thrown away before of electrical faults and someone said the problem is: - the flexible tracks are just clamp together and corrosion or whatever causes problems, well he took his FT-1 top plate off cleaned the tracks and re-clamped and the camera worked again.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excalibur wrote:

...and I wonder how many Konica FS-1 and FT-1s have been thrown away before of electrical faults and someone said the problem is: - the flexible tracks are just clamp together and corrosion or whatever causes problems, well he took his FT-1 top plate off cleaned the tracks and re-clamped and the camera worked again.


I did that, I'm not sure if I told it here. Very Happy


PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kansalliskalaCafe wrote:
Excalibur wrote:

...and I wonder how many Konica FS-1 and FT-1s have been thrown away before of electrical faults and someone said the problem is: - the flexible tracks are just clamp together and corrosion or whatever causes problems, well he took his FT-1 top plate off cleaned the tracks and re-clamped and the camera worked again.


I did that, I'm not sure if I told it here. Very Happy


Did you give instructions on how to take the top plate off to get at the flexible tracks? My FT-1 is half working in that the shutter fires then a wait of about 2 secs before it would fire again and the diodes don't show in the viewfinder...so it's a point and shoot camera ATM. Rolling Eyes


PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

...and I wonder how many Konica FS-1 and FT-1s have been thrown away before of electrical faults and someone said the problem is: - the flexible tracks are just clamp together and corrosion or whatever causes problems, well he took his FT-1 top plate off cleaned the tracks and re-clamped and the camera worked again.


FS-1:
When the shutter release button doesn't operate, a frequent problem, you may be able to fix it. After 2-3 decades, it turned out that this button is prone to dust contamination. If you are meticulous, you can take the button off, clean it, or replace it (there are almost identical ones available).
If the camera has other electronic problems, in the overwhelming majority of cases you can kiss it goodbye. Looks good on the shelf though Smile

FT-1:
The repair mentioned by Excalibur refers to this camera only. It's not corrosion that causes the problem, but the foam which holds the flexi-circuits in place. This foam degrades just like light seals or mirror damping foam, the result being that nothing holds down the flexi-circuits anymore and contact is not assured. The repair consists in replacing the little foam strips (3 of them). Once you get to it, it's easy as pie. For those so inclined, more here (click on each photo to read detailed instructions on how to proceed) :
https://www.flickr.com/photos/15235665@N04/sets/72157623203627474/


PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuji ST 801

Leicaflex SL and SL2

Contarex B.E.

Spotmatic

Alpa 10D

GAF M42

Nikon series F

Canon FT's

ETc.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

konicamera wrote:

FT-1:
The repair mentioned by Excalibur refers to this camera only. It's not corrosion that causes the problem, but the foam which holds the flexi-circuits in place. This foam degrades just like light seals or mirror damping foam, the result being that nothing holds down the flexi-circuits anymore and contact is not assured. The repair consists in replacing the little foam strips (3 of them). Once you get to it, it's easy as pie. For those so inclined, more here (click on each photo to read detailed instructions on how to proceed) :
https://www.flickr.com/photos/15235665@N04/sets/72157623203627474/


yes, this one exactly
some points:

on / off -switch is slightly tricky to reinstall
I used foam that goes under vinyle floor tiles folded, I think the thinner the foam the better


PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:12 pm    Post subject: Canon Rangefinder Reply with quote

I have just created a couple of days ago a website devoted to Canon rangefinders and lenses 1936 to 1975
https://www.canonrangefinder.org
This is still a work in process, but is maybe half complete. I have also added two pages on Minolta-35 cameras and lenses and
I hope to add pages on Leotax, Nicca, Reid, and other historic rangefinders using the M39 screw mount.
Have a look... hope you will find of interest. Also, all corrections, additions, comments welcome at
huffman@gmx.com
thanks, Larry


PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevemark wrote:
Both series have their quirks; the XD is prone to a failure of the mirror damping system, resulting in sluggish and delayed shutter release; the entire X-700/-500/-300 series can have problems with their capacitors.


The positive here is that the piston on XD is ridiculously easy to access - resealing and reskinning will take more time.

Re: capacitors - I'm not sure I am buying that. All references lead to one successful repair. Personally, I've only been able revive a Minolta by replacing a capacitor once, and there it was obvious once I removed the bottom cover that the electrolytic cap has popped. OTOH, X-700 service manual provides multiple reasons for the malfunction ascribed to the capacitor failure.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gardener wrote:
stevemark wrote:
Both series have their quirks; the XD is prone to a failure of the mirror damping system, resulting in sluggish and delayed shutter release; the entire X-700/-500/-300 series can have problems with their capacitors.


The positive here is that the piston on XD is ridiculously easy to access - resealing and reskinning will take more time.

Re: capacitors - I'm not sure I am buying that. All references lead to one successful repair. Personally, I've only been able revive a Minolta by replacing a capacitor once, and there it was obvious once I removed the bottom cover that the electrolytic cap has popped. OTOH, X-700 service manual provides multiple reasons for the malfunction ascribed to the capacitor failure.


I have never experienced the failure described as "capacitor failure"; my knowledge about that comes from the (German) Minolta Forum, no "so-fo.de". A good starting point for reading is e. g. this thread:
http://www.so-fo.de/t22693f202-Welcher-Elko-ist-der-quot-obere-quot-bei-defekter-X.html

Stephan


PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2019 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've some experience with the OM2, Nikon F, XD 7 and Canon 7. Sturdiness inside and out -- Canon 7, winnns (the selenium cell meter will fail, other than that..I don't know). Feel of shutter - XD7 , wiinnsss. The others aren't bad and feel good in the hand too but the shutters are more "kerploink".


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In addition to the already mentioned Nikon F and FM series, the Nikon FE and especially the FE-2 (1/4000s, 1/250s flash sync, TTL flash metering, titanium shutter) might be valuable alternatives.
The FE-2 has everything one needs - plus it feels much more sturdy than an Canon A-1 or a Minolta X-700:

* small yet robust metal body
* titanium shutter (B, 4s, ... 1/4000s)
* 1/250s flash sync
* mechanical B and 1/250s (works without batteries)
* integral light metering (no spot or multiple metering)
* manual metering and A mode
* nice needle metering system (override with +/- 2 EV steps)
* aperture visible in the viewfinder
* huge viewfinder (0.86x; 43% larger area than the 0.72x viewfinder of today's Nikon D5)
* MD-12 Motor drive (3 fps)
* stop-down lever
* little shutter/mirror vibration

It doesn't have
* exchangeable viewfinders
* S- and P-mode
* 100% viewfinder (only 93% of the actual image recorded on film is seen in the viewfinder)
* Spot metering
* fast motor drive (5 fps)



Nikon FE with MD-12 Motor Drive and Ai Nikkor 2.8/24mm (left), and Nikon FE-2 with the Ai Nikkor 2.8/28mm (right)


PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:34 am    Post subject: robustness Reply with quote

This discussion calls for clarification of what a robust slr is. Is it a classical analog mirrorslap device ,or as I initially assumed, any analog body, such as the Nikonos which is designed for inhospitable surroundings (provided the seals are maintained). If the former, maybe a criterion of robustness should be normal, if strenuous use, + no age dependent faults like disintegrating light seals or failing -irreplaceable- integrated circuits.

Two possibly relevant observations: in my experience an Olympus 1 on the same equally moisture ridden fieldwork as a Leica M3 did not survive at all, could not be repaired ,the ocular and the meter electrics of the Oly had failed. After its demise, the M3 was on the contrary declared entirely fit by the local Leitz service.

I have good experiences with the Alpa, which is listed above. The meter is bridge-coupled and can take any reasonable voltage while the battery weakens, and age does not seem to destroy the innards. Still moves like the "clockwork" it is.

p.


PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: robustness Reply with quote

paulhofseth wrote:
This discussion calls for clarification of what a robust slr is. Is it a classical analog mirrorslap device ,or as I initially assumed, any analog body, such as the Nikonos which is designed for inhospitable surroundings (provided the seals are maintained).


I don't see these distinctions you mention as being germane to the discussion. Neither the Nikonos nor the Leica M3 are SLRs. So no matter how robust they are, they shouldn't be included in the discussion. I agree that the Leica M-series rangefinders are exceptionally robust cameras, but unless the parameters of the discussion are changed to include rangefinders, they get left out because they lack mirrors. Simple as that, really.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:13 am    Post subject: agreement Reply with quote

I agree on sticking to SLRs, much more to go wrong mechanically.

p.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Nikon F5 has the reputation of extreme reliability. There are documented cases of bodies with a million shutter actuations. Mine gets treated better than many. Very Happy




PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is F5 one of those Nikons that used cost nowdays more than ever new?


PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kansalliskala wrote:
Is F5 one of those Nikons that used cost nowdays more than ever new?


..and ugly too, all that size for a small 35mm neg Rolling Eyes


PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kansalliskala wrote:
Is F5 one of those Nikons that used cost nowdays more than ever new?


No. When first introduced, the F5 sold for over $2,000 -- street price. These days you can find clean F5s on eBay for substantially less than $300.


PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excalibur wrote:
kansalliskala wrote:
Is F5 one of those Nikons that used cost nowdays more than ever new?


..and ugly too, all that size for a small 35mm neg Rolling Eyes


Duly noted.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just seen a F5 with Nikkor AF zoom 42-86mm for 150 € on french site.
I didn't have the time to make an offer as it was already sold.
I saw 3 or 4 selling for 230-250€ naked.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Olivier wrote:
I've just seen a F5 with Nikkor AF zoom 42-86mm


that's an unholy combo Very Happy


PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: What is a really robust film SLR or Rangefinder? Reply with quote

kansalliskala wrote:
I really want a camera that I can toss to a car seat and not worry if it bounces on the floor.

I don't think there are any SLRs that can be expected to survive rough treatment like that, they're really quite delicate mechanisms. If they do it's against the odds.

Modern plastic cameras crack and shatter too easily. Older metal cameras can take knocks and dents to an extent, some better than others, but all SLRs have a heavy prism which, due to its mass, is too easily dislodged by heavy handling, even if the camera is inside a protective case. The prisms normally sit on a foam bed (often disintegrated now) and are held in place by small fine springs. If the prism is dislodged the viewfinder is useless. Also, mirrors, shutter mechanisms and lenses on SLRs are easily affected by knocks, or by heat on a sunny window shelf.

I think I'd go for a fixed lens rangefinder with a leaf shutter, for instance the Konica Auto S2.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:01 am    Post subject: Re: What is a really robust film SLR or Rangefinder? Reply with quote

peterqd wrote:
I think I'd go for a fixed lens rangefinder with a leaf shutter, for instance the Konica Auto S2.


I do have a Konica C35EF3 for that purpose.
It works like a train's toilet.
(this used to be true when they were just holes in the floor Smile )