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Fujinon 55mm f1.8 or f2.2 ?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:17 pm    Post subject: Fujinon 55mm f1.8 or f2.2 ? Reply with quote

Hello.

I'm looking to add a Fujinon to my photographic gear because of the bubble bokeh.
At first I was thinking about the Fujinon 55 f2.2 because it looks sharp (sharpness is very important to me) and produces a beautiful soap bokeh (with that light outline around the bubbles).
It is also a cheap lens.
But because I have micro 4/3 cameras (with 2x crop factor) and shallow DOF is also important to me, I've starting to look for the f1.8 version.
It is more expensive naturally, but the soap bubble bokeh is gorgeous and just like the f2.2 version.
Here's an example in this link:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/giannisantolin/18036382598/in/photolist-ttPbaL-wPJ6MA-xiMQRf-5gBFja-vor98u-4eFaLS-uyLHuD-pg8LH4-ka6U7n-4tGbym-5iBNJJ-mZBb6n-pMvMTq-9DvHpi-6UH5RP-8menGT-tabc3E-ruAvi1-di7PrU-eebvmm-k7Leow-nu1Uf5-dwUkzm-pa11of-4udWhJ-m9is7b-xNeTT3-kcatVN-4piguu-avMxxV-tMC66X-xgsXKM-tJvv8b-uDfPxB-92EmWR-uJsUBa-935CNN-4fqw82-wL7ziv-92qcT1-vji8pA-vBfcxR-urSZAN-zmFhuc-tg3Awk-wB6zzP-youLEh-gc91v3-oWvquA-vAjuZJ

Does anyone have any experience with both versions?
Are they equally sharp, or the f2.2 is sharper?
I've herd that sometimes the lenses with wide aperture are not so sharp.
About the f1.8, I don't know if there is more than one version...

Also, I've noticed 2 different f2.2 variants.
One says "X-FUJINON" and the other only "FUJINON".
Is the optical formula the same and only difference in mount type?

Thank you for reading.


PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 55 f2.2 says FUJINON. Fuji Photo Film Co. on the name ring, It's a lightweight lens, lots of plastic, but lovely optics. It's a nice lens. I haven't got any other Fuji lenses to compare it with, but it holds its own with most 50mm range lenses for sharpness, and has no serious CA faults.
Certainly the bubble bokeh is a bonus, use this lens wide open with pinpoints of backlight and you're in for a bubble treat. This is a picture of light reflecting off the leaves of a holly tree.



But it can do this as well -



Last edited by Lloydy on Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:02 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven`t used the 2.2 but the 55mm 1.8 is one of the best Japanese slower 55mm s out, I`ve compared it to similarYashinon,Takumar,Rikenon etc. lenses of that era and it`s been my favourite. I have the 50mm 1.4 also but still wouldn`t sell this as it`s ability far outweighs its value.

Flare resistant, sharp from wide open with excellent colour rendition. It`s also small/light enough and well built, just a great all rounder.


PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you both for taking your time to reply.
Thank you Lloydy for the sample pictures.

I've just closed business with for a Fujinon 55 f/1.8
It was a good deal so I didn't want to let the opportunity escape.


PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Macca wrote:
I haven`t used the 2.2 but the 55mm 1.8 is one of the best Japanese slower 55mm s out (...)


I'm curious why do you call it slower?...
F/1.8 is not so slower. Well, for me at least. Wink


PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I happen to own both.

Here is a quick test from a few month ago:

2.2


1.8


PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I own quite a few EBC lenses. I truly haven't experienced much bubble bokeh, mostly smooth and creamy. I guess if you try to capture bubble bokeh such as shooting through leafy foliage into the light you would achieve the effect. My glass is 55mm EBC macro, and 135mm EBC 3.5 in the photos below.















PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They look very very sharp.

I hope "my" coming Fujinon 55 f1.8 is sharp like that.


spiralcity wrote:
I own quite a few EBC lenses. I truly haven't experienced much bubble bokeh, mostly smooth and creamy. I guess if you try to capture bubble bokeh such as shooting through leafy foliage into the light you would achieve the effect. My glass is 55mm EBC macro, and 135mm EBC 3.5 in the photos below.















PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know well what to think…
On your samples the f2.2 seams to have a better bubble bokeh.
As for the sharp they look equal.

Maybe the bokeh effect can vary just by moving the lens a bit.
In the sample of the link bellow the f1.8 looks great:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/giannisantolin/18036382598/in/photolist-ttPbaL-wPJ6MA-xiMQRf-5gBFja-vor98u-4eFaLS-uyLHuD-pg8LH4-ka6U7n-4tGbym-5iBNJJ-mZBb6n-pMvMTq-9DvHpi-6UH5RP-8menGT-tabc3E-ruAvi1-di7PrU-eebvmm-k7Leow-nu1Uf5-dwUkzm-pa11of-4udWhJ-m9is7b-xNeTT3-kcatVN-4piguu-avMxxV-tMC66X-xgsXKM-tJvv8b-uDfPxB-92EmWR-uJsUBa-935CNN-4fqw82-wL7ziv-92qcT1-vji8pA-vBfcxR-urSZAN-zmFhuc-tg3Awk-wB6zzP-youLEh-gc91v3-oWvquA-vAjuZJ


blotafton wrote:
I happen to own both.

Here is a quick test from a few month ago:

2.2


1.8


PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2.2's sharp edged specular highlight produces much more pronounce bubble bokeh. Period.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tao wrote:
2.2's sharp edged specular highlight produces much more pronounce bubble bokeh. Period.


As a rule of thumb, the longer a lens’ focal length and the wider its aperture, the stronger the background will be blurred. Also, shorter focal lengths tend to cause busier bokeh than longer focal lengths, and in general lenses featuring aspherical optical elements provide smoother bokeh than lenses with solely spherical elements.

Then there are the aperture blades, the more blades the better but the blade shape definitely plays a role.

There is a lot a play when dealing with bokeh.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 55 / 2.2 is a slightly unusual optical design, apparently it is a Unar lens which gives it more of the distinctive bubble bokeh. But my technical knowledge goes no further than this. Wink


PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiralcity wrote:

As a rule of thumb, the longer a lens’ focal length and the wider its aperture, the stronger the background will be blurred. Also, shorter focal lengths tend to cause busier bokeh than longer focal lengths, and in general lenses featuring aspherical optical elements provide smoother bokeh than lenses with solely spherical elements.

Then there are the aperture blades, the more blades the better but the blade shape definitely plays a role.

There is a lot a play when dealing with bokeh.


Well, they are both nominally 55mm. They are both cheapo kit lenses with no fancy aspherical glass. The 1.8 has 6 blades while the 2.2 has 5, but soap bubble bokeh is most pronounced wide open so this is not really relevance.

I believe the main reason for the different rendering between these two are the optical construction; The 1.8 has a planar scheme as oppose to 2.2's unar. Anyhow in this case it is best to use the lens to see what it can do. From my experience the Fujinon 55/2.2 is a nice soap bubble maker, in the same vein as the Petri Orikkor or the Trioplan, but way chaeper.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 1:22 am    Post subject: Re: Fujinon 55mm f1.8 or f2.2 ? Reply with quote

jrsilva wrote:


Also, I've noticed 2 different f2.2 variants.
One says "X-FUJINON" and the other only "FUJINON".
Is the optical formula the same and only difference in mount type?

Thank you for reading.


I never compare them side-by-side but I believe they are the same lens with different mount. I don't like the Kiwi adapter so I prefer the FUJINON. You'd better look for the one that the grip is still intact or has been fixed.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tao wrote:
spiralcity wrote:

As a rule of thumb, the longer a lens’ focal length and the wider its aperture, the stronger the background will be blurred. Also, shorter focal lengths tend to cause busier bokeh than longer focal lengths, and in general lenses featuring aspherical optical elements provide smoother bokeh than lenses with solely spherical elements.

Then there are the aperture blades, the more blades the better but the blade shape definitely plays a role.

There is a lot a play when dealing with bokeh.


Well, they are both nominally 55mm. They are both cheapo kit lenses with no fancy aspherical glass. The 1.8 has 6 blades while the 2.2 has 5, but soap bubble bokeh is most pronounced wide open so this is not really relevance.

I believe the main reason for the different rendering between these two are the optical construction; The 1.8 has a planar scheme as oppose to 2.2's unar. Anyhow in this case it is best to use the lens to see what it can do. From my experience the Fujinon 55/2.2 is a nice soap bubble maker, in the same vein as the Petri Orikkor or the Trioplan, but way chaeper.


It's a matter of how you shoot the subject, but both lenses should produce good bubble bokeh. I'm sure you have had great luck with the 2.2, I do not doubt you, but I think you will have great luck with the 1.8 also.

Tiny pin point lights, a large aperture and a short focal distance, should get you great bubble bokeh every time.

Typically the larger the aperture the larger the bokeh. When lenses use 5 to7 straight aperture blades to create the opening in the lens the bokeh takes on the shape and size of the lens opening. So smaller apertures will produce smaller, and generally less pleasing bokeh

The shorter the focus distance to the foreground subject, the better the background bokeh will be. The idea is to get as much distance between the subject and the bokeh producing highlights. Also, the closer you are focused to the camera the shorter the depth of field will be. This ensures those lights way off in the background will be blurred.

The focal length of the lens is also a consideration. Depth of field is basically a function of focal length, distance to subject and aperture. At a given aperture and distance, longer focal lengths result in shorter depth of field, and a shorter depth of filed is what we need to sufficiently blur the background highlights to achieve good bokeh.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Fujinon 55mm f1.8 or f2.2 ? Reply with quote

tao wrote:
I never compare them side-by-side but I believe they are the same lens with different mount. I don't like the Kiwi adapter so I prefer the FUJINON. You'd better look for the one that the grip is still intact or has been fixed.


What's the problem with Kiwi adapters? I have two of them (LMA-FJ_EMII) and they serve me well.


PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me, the 1.8/55 is a very good lens and the 2.2/55 is a mediocre lens.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiralcity wrote:

It's a matter of how you shoot the subject, but both lenses should produce good bubble bokeh. I'm sure you have had great luck with the 2.2, I do not doubt you, but I think you will have great luck with the 1.8 also.

Tiny pin point lights, a large aperture and a short focal distance, should get you great bubble bokeh every time.

Typically the larger the aperture the larger the bokeh. When lenses use 5 to7 straight aperture blades to create the opening in the lens the bokeh takes on the shape and size of the lens opening. So smaller apertures will produce smaller, and generally less pleasing bokeh

The shorter the focus distance to the foreground subject, the better the background bokeh will be. The idea is to get as much distance between the subject and the bokeh producing highlights. Also, the closer you are focused to the camera the shorter the depth of field will be. This ensures those lights way off in the background will be blurred.

The focal length of the lens is also a consideration. Depth of field is basically a function of focal length, distance to subject and aperture. At a given aperture and distance, longer focal lengths result in shorter depth of field, and a shorter depth of filed is what we need to sufficiently blur the background highlights to achieve good bokeh.


Friends


PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Fujinon 55mm f1.8 or f2.2 ? Reply with quote

quidam wrote:

What's the problem with Kiwi adapters? I have two of them (LMA-FJ_EMII) and they serve me well.


My Kiwi Fujinon/m43 does not have any mechanism to engage the lever that control the lens' iris. I used to hold the lever in place with a folded paper which kept falling off. I now switched to a small piece of sponge which stayed in place much better. Still quite a hassle. I got the adapter a couple years ago so they might have changed the design.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello and congrats for your 1.8/55 Fujinon.

I have a non EBC one.
Here it is with sample shots
http://forum.mflenses.com/fujinon-55mm-f1-8-sample-shots-t24825,highlight,%2Bfujinon.html

It's a very good lens.


PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for replying!

Olivier, thank's for the pictures.

I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive on the mail box.
I will test the bokeh and see what I can get.

I will try to refrain from getting the EBC glass for now Smile


PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All taken with my Sony NEX-5N and a Fujinon 55mm, f1.8. On the top 2 photos I'm also using a #1 extention tube. Slightly soft lens with excellent color rendition. Fairly common too as many of the ST series cameras came with them.











PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AstroZon wrote:
All taken with my Sony NEX-5N and a Fujinon 55mm, f1.8. On the top 2 photos I'm also using a #1 extention tube. Slightly soft lens with excellent color rendition. Fairly common too as many of the ST series cameras came with them.






Thank you for the samples! Like 1 small
The #2 looks sharp.

I'm going to use this lens mainly for portrait work.
I don't know if I'm going to like it because I'm used to very sharp prime lenses...
But as I'm going to do head and shoulders portraits maybe I will get enough detail and that bubble bokeh that made me want to buy it.

Is there much difference between the EBC version and the Non EBC version?


PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here there are some answers
http://photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00cHSt

Non EBC are not multi-coated but give great results too.

and here some words by Arkku about EBC lenses
http://forum.mflenses.com/what-does-the-ebc-in-ebc-fujinon-lenses-stand-for-t48439.html


PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Olivier wrote:
Here there are some answers
http://photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00cHSt

Non EBC are not multi-coated but give great results too.

and here some words by Arkku about EBC lenses
http://forum.mflenses.com/what-does-the-ebc-in-ebc-fujinon-lenses-stand-for-t48439.html


Thank you Oliver!

I already know about the first link, but didn't know the second link.
I can't wait to get the Fuginon attached to my camera.
I'm still waiting for the lens and the adapter.