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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:


The manufacture dates are significant and revealing imho -- the Auto-Takumars were produced in 1958, 2 years before the Yashinon. The last Auto-Takumar 1.8/55 was produced in 1960, a year before the Yashinon, is in fact a Super-Takumar design with A/M switch instead of the usual Auto-Takumar cock & trigger aperture mechanism.. Thus I propose the theory Asahi was about to introduce a new model Auto-Takumar 2/50mm, and manufactured all the parts, ready to send down the assembly line when Asahi decided to stop production of older Auto-Takumar designs in favor of the newer design with A/M switch. Asahi then sold all the parts for the Auto-Takumar 2/50 to Tomioka/Yashinon, who made new name rings, assembled the parts, and sold as Yashinon brand -- Asahi designed and manufactured the parts assembled by and sold as Tomioka/Yashinon.


Except that they didn't sell parts to Tomioka but used them to make the almost identical but cheaper Auto-Takumar 55mm 1:2.2 from 61 to 63.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
visualopsins wrote:


The manufacture dates are significant and revealing imho -- the Auto-Takumars were produced in 1958, 2 years before the Yashinon. The last Auto-Takumar 1.8/55 was produced in 1960, a year before the Yashinon, is in fact a Super-Takumar design with A/M switch instead of the usual Auto-Takumar cock & trigger aperture mechanism.. Thus I propose the theory Asahi was about to introduce a new model Auto-Takumar 2/50mm, and manufactured all the parts, ready to send down the assembly line when Asahi decided to stop production of older Auto-Takumar designs in favor of the newer design with A/M switch. Asahi then sold all the parts for the Auto-Takumar 2/50 to Tomioka/Yashinon, who made new name rings, assembled the parts, and sold as Yashinon brand -- Asahi designed and manufactured the parts assembled by and sold as Tomioka/Yashinon.


Except that they didn't sell parts to Tomioka but used them to make the almost identical but cheaper Auto-Takumar 55mm 1:2.2 from 61 to 63.


Those are different focal length lenses, one 50mm, one 55mm. The 50mm Auto-Yashinon focus and aperture rings turn opposite direction from Auto-Takumar 1:2.2/55mm...

Another twist may be Asahi sold already assembled lenses to Tomioka, complete with Yashinon name ring as part of the deal.

How many Auto-Yashinon 2/50 were sold? That number may be about one typical Asahi batch of lenses. When did next model Yashinon 2/50 first appear? If also 1961...


PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


These lenses do not look the same. Similar suit but a different tailor. Apart from cosmetic differences there s a different lens formula so different internals needed to mount the elements. Takumar has 10 aperture blades, Yashinon 6. Takumar turns the Pentax way, Yashinon doesn't F22 VS F16, Half clicks on aperture ring vs only full clicks. If you look at the m42 mount of the Takumar you see two cut aways where the mount is screwed on the rest of the body. Yashinon doesn't have that.


PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:


These lenses do not look the same. Similar suit but a different tailor. Apart from cosmetic differences there s a different lens formula so different internals needed to mount the elements. Takumar has 10 aperture blades, Yashinon 6. Takumar turns the Pentax way, Yashinon doesn't F22 VS F16, Half clicks on aperture ring vs only full clicks. If you look at the m42 mount of the Takumar you see two cut aways where the mount is screwed on the rest of the body. Yashinon doesn't have that.


And no IR index mark on the Takumar
T


PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, can you show us the Yashinon mount please?


PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
yashinon


Takumar


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
yashinon


Takumar


Different optics for sure!
M42 mount chrome rings both have that little mark next to the aperture pin.
Aperture rings both have distinctive lowered "." in "5.6" typeface.
Focus knob knurling looks as if made on the same machine, the same easy to relabel distance markings...
Typeface is identical down to the slightly pointed infinity character.

The Diaphragm cock lever on the Auto-Yashinon looks larger, maybe only viewing angle is different?


PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Yashinon weighs 227 grams. I weighed it. The Takumar weighs 175 grams according to Pentaxforums. 52 grams difference means different lens. Almost everything looks different about the lenses if you look closely. I bet Pentax licensed the Auto-aperture system to Yashica or Tomioka or both, but they made their own lenses with their own parts, maybe some from the same subcontractor Pentax used.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
The Yashinon weighs 227 grams. I weighed it. The Takumar weighs 175 grams according to Pentaxforums. 52 grams difference means different lens. Almost everything looks different about the lenses if you look closely. I bet Pentax licensed the Auto-aperture system to Yashica or Tomioka or both, but they made their own lenses with their own parts, maybe some from the same subcontractor Pentax used.


Different optics easily account for different weights.

Some things look the same if you look closely. Smile

Yes, Pentax used Asahi. Smile

At the time not a stretch actually clever demonstration of state-of-the-art skill to mirror-image body, and insert entirely different optical blocks. Asahi surely had this skills; Yashica surely had engineering hot-shots with skills too.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
yeah everything can be explained as long as the Takumar is made by Tomioka, which is a foregone conclusion. Internet lore before facts.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
D1N0 wrote:
yeah everything can be explained as long as the Takumar is made by Tomioka, which is a foregone conclusion. Internet lore before facts.


Agree to disagree I guess...

EDIT: Suppose Asahi Engineer(s) go to work for Yashica?


PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Not sure if this was a good idea or a mistake... always on the lookout for something interesting (photo is the sellers photo)


PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alun Thomas wrote:


Not sure if this was a good idea or a mistake... always on the lookout for something interesting (photo is the sellers photo)

Well-made Chinese copy of the Biotar. Like 1


PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alun Thomas wrote:


Not sure if this was a good idea or a mistake... always on the lookout for something interesting (photo is the sellers photo)


Should be a good one!


PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Coastal Optics (JENOPTIK) 60mm UV-VIS-IR APO


PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
#1


#2


Accura Diamatic 85 1.7, as far as I can tell made by Sigma. This lens was a little cheaper than normal as the previous owner had disassembled it and it was sold in two parts. Miraculously all parts were still present. The aperture was gummed up, and needed other maintenance as well, taking several hours by the time I successfully worked out how to procede.

Also sold as Spiratone, I agree with others that this is one of the sharper third party 85mm lenses from that era.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alun Thomas wrote:


Accura Diamatic 85 1.7, as far as I can tell made by Sigma. This lens was a little cheaper than normal as the previous owner had disassembled it and it was sold in two parts. Miraculously all parts were still present. The aperture was gummed up, and needed other maintenance as well, taking several hours by the time I successfully worked out how to procede.

Also sold as Spiratone, I agree with others that this is one of the sharper third party 85mm lenses from that era.


Congrats. It is surprised that old Sigma lenses are sharp. In my impression, their XQ series are not sharp lenses. But these YS mount lenses are quite different. I remember when I put the Spiratone 85mm on A7ii, I can easily see the peaking pattern, which partially indicates it is a sharp lens. On the other hand, it is not easy to find a copy without haze nowaday.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
Coastal Optics (JENOPTIK) 60mm UV-VIS-IR APO
Congrats


PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
vivaldibow wrote:


It is surprised that old Sigma lenses are sharp.


I've found Sigma lenses to be a mixed bag certainly. In my opinion they didn't make a passable 24mm lens until the Super-Wide version 2, I got an AF version of that which is reasonable. I've tried an XQ era 135 2.8 which was quite poor, and a 200 F4 likewise, and also the 300 F4. I have the 55mm 2.8 macro lens which does okay. The 28mm lenses were okay, neither good or bad. I have yet to try the 35/2.8 or the 100/2.8.

This 85 is sharpish wide open, more so than the Vivitar 85mm 1.8, and the Soligor 85mm 1.8, and just a little bit better than the Sankor made 85mm 1.9. But it's all relative, a modern 85mm would easily exceed this performance, and very possibly a camera makers 85 from the same period too, although I haven't tried any.

Having said that, this lens is probably fine for portraits. I did not detect any glow, and sometimes the last pixels worth of sharpness isn't helpful with portraits anyway.


PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
visualopsins wrote:
kds315* wrote:
Coastal Optics (JENOPTIK) 60mm UV-VIS-IR APO
Congrats


Yep, missed one a few weeks ago, but now another had appeared (basically never used except tested, all complete) and this time I did not wait Wink

Still a rather rare lens... not sure why all of a sudden so many rarities appear... ppl need cash I guess


PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That is one of the many Helios...

DSC01506 by Mr TTT, on Flickr


PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(sellers pic)

One of the rarer versions of this lens. Discussed here: https://yashicasailorboy.com/tag/f-1-7-5-8cm-lens/

The writer there is convinced the lens is of Zunow manufacture. My opinion leans toward Sekor. Mamiya had yet to release an SLR camera when the Yashica Pentamatic made its debut. They had however had cameras in development for several years, as detailed here: https://web.archive.org/web/20170713152227/http://herron.50megs.com/prismat.htm

It's not impossible for Sekor to have had SLR lens designs ready for some years already when the Pentamatic P2 was developed, or for Yashica to have used a Sekor lens. One often remarked opinion about the Pentamatic cameras, is that they initially lacked a choice of lenses. The 55/1.8 of the version 1 was said to be a Tomioka design, as were the 100mm and 35mm lenses. Kyoei provided 135, 180 and 250mm lenses. Clearly at that point, Yashica were firmly focused on quickly getting their SLR camera into the world as part of the frenetic race amongst Japanese SLR makers that characterised that period.

anyhow, as always, who knows for sure? We may never...


PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alun Thomas wrote:

(sellers pic)

One of the rarer versions of this lens. Discussed here: https://yashicasailorboy.com/tag/f-1-7-5-8cm-lens/

The writer there is convinced the lens is of Zunow manufacture. My opinion leans toward Sekor. Mamiya had yet to release an SLR camera when the Yashica Pentamatic made its debut. They had however had cameras in development for several years, as detailed here: https://web.archive.org/web/20170713152227/http://herron.50megs.com/prismat.htm

It's not impossible for Sekor to have had SLR lens designs ready for some years already when the Pentamatic P2 was developed, or for Yashica to have used a Sekor lens. One often remarked opinion about the Pentamatic cameras, is that they initially lacked a choice of lenses. The 55/1.8 of the version 1 was said to be a Tomioka design, as were the 100mm and 35mm lenses. Kyoei provided 135, 180 and 250mm lenses. Clearly at that point, Yashica were firmly focused on quickly getting their SLR camera into the world as part of the frenetic race amongst Japanese SLR makers that characterised that period.

anyhow, as always, who knows for sure? We may never...


5,8cm f/1.7 sounds good already!


PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alun Thomas wrote:

(sellers pic)

One of the rarer versions of this lens. Discussed here: https://yashicasailorboy.com/tag/f-1-7-5-8cm-lens/

The writer there is convinced the lens is of Zunow manufacture. My opinion leans toward Sekor. Mamiya had yet to release an SLR camera when the Yashica Pentamatic made its debut. They had however had cameras in development for several years, as detailed here: https://web.archive.org/web/20170713152227/http://herron.50megs.com/prismat.htm

It's not impossible for Sekor to have had SLR lens designs ready for some years already when the Pentamatic P2 was developed, or for Yashica to have used a Sekor lens. One often remarked opinion about the Pentamatic cameras, is that they initially lacked a choice of lenses. The 55/1.8 of the version 1 was said to be a Tomioka design, as were the 100mm and 35mm lenses. Kyoei provided 135, 180 and 250mm lenses. Clearly at that point, Yashica were firmly focused on quickly getting their SLR camera into the world as part of the frenetic race amongst Japanese SLR makers that characterised that period.

anyhow, as always, who knows for sure? We may never...


Yes the 100 mm was certainly Tomioka and I do believe that the 55 was as well.

#1


#2


PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
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