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manufelices
Joined: 22 Oct 2015 Posts: 10
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:42 pm Post subject: Carl Zeiss Sonnar 85 f2.8 versus Leica Elmarit-R 90 f2.8 |
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manufelices wrote:
Hi everyone! Which do you think is better for portrait? I have a canon 50D and a NEX a6000. Is the Leica the sharpest? |
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memetph
Joined: 01 Dec 2013 Posts: 942 Location: Poland
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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memetph wrote:
I just bought a the Sonnar ( QBM) to use on an A7. It is too sharp for portrait ! |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57849 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Sonnar is sharper, I like it better , both excellent lens. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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Tedat
Joined: 08 Nov 2011 Posts: 800 Location: Berlin/Germany
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:12 am Post subject: |
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Tedat wrote:
the Sonnar is small like a 50mm lens, very sharp and has a nice pop _________________ Regards
Jan
flickr
Sony A7RM2
Contax T*: Distagon 4/18, Distagon 2/28, Distagon 1.4/35, PC-Distagon 2.8/35, Planar 1.4/50, Planar 1.4/85, Planar 2/100, Planar 2/135, S-Planar 2.8/60, Tessar 2.8/45, Mirotar 8/500, Vario Sonnar 3.4/35-70, Vario Sonnar 4.5-5.6/100-300
Carl Zeiss for Rollei QBM: F-Distagon 2.8/16 HFT, Distagon 2.8/25, Planar 1.4/50 HFT, Sonnar 2.8/85
Konica Hexanon AR: 2.8/21, 1.2/57
Other: Minolta F2.8 [T4.5] 135mm STF, Meopta Meostigmat 1.4/70, Tokina AT-X 2.5/90.. and lots of early M42 Yashinon, Rikenon and Mamiya lenses |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:15 am Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
Difficult question and not easy as both lenses are available in different variants from different production plants from different countries.
However, what I've seen in direct comparisons so far the Zeiss lens is more prone to CA's when fully open. When stopped down there is hardly any difference in optical quality.
So therefore I would rather recommend the more expensive Leitz lens as especially for portraits the likelihood to use it fully open is much bigger.
I don't have the R- but the equally constructed M-version of the Elmarit 90/2.8 lens and cannot say anything bad about it. I would buy it again. _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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aoleg
Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 1389 Location: Berlin, DE
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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aoleg wrote:
I have both lenses, and used both for portraits. I have an MMG copy of the Sonnar (basically the latest) and the 1st version of the Leica. Here are my observations.
Sharpness: the Zeiss is sharper at all apertures.
Contrast: the Zeiss has far stronger contrast and micro contrast. The Leica, on the other hand, may look better for portraits.
Flare: the Zeiss... you guessed it. Its smaller front element and far better coatings (compared to the 1st version of the Leica, which is very old) do the job.
Out of focus rendition: the Leica draws much smoother bokeh. No comparison.
3D effect: Zeiss. Hands down.
Colors: both are great, no visible difference to my eye.
Handling: the Leica is much bigger and much, much heavier. It'll probably survive a war. The Zeiss is very compact and light.
Overall, these two lenses are distinctly different. I like both; they are not interchangeable.
Lenses similar to Zeiss Sonnar: Rolleinar 85/2.8.
Lenses that render similar to Leica 90/2.8 (I'm not talking about sharpness here, just rendering): Mitakon 85/2.8, Jupiter 85/2 (stopped down to 2., maybe Minolta MC 85/1.7 (at 2. and maaaaybe Nikkor Ai 85/2 (stopped down to 2.. _________________ List of lenses |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
aoleg wrote: |
I have both lenses, and used both for portraits. I have an MMG copy of the Sonnar (basically the latest) and the 1st version of the Leica. Here are my observations.
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Maybe you should also state that the difference between the first and the last Leica-R lens is rather huge. According Puts the last version of the Leica one was an outstanding and excellent lens and far better than the first version.
Would be interesting how a comparison of similar age would look like. The comparison I mentioned earlier was about lenses from the 1990's and there the picture looks a little bit different, i.e. more in favor of the Leitz lens.
However, your comparison with the Minolta 85/1.7 and Jupiter 85/2 lens in terms of rendering is quite interesting. I never realized that before. Have to check it myself. _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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manufelices
Joined: 22 Oct 2015 Posts: 10
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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manufelices wrote:
Thank you guys! Ufffff. This is not easy at all... |
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uhoh7
Joined: 24 Nov 2010 Posts: 1300 Location: Idaho, USA
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Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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uhoh7 wrote:
Well, it seems obvious which is the better portrait lens.
Aoleg makes it pretty clear.
For landscape, I'd take the zeiss _________________ Making MFlenses safe for the letter *L* |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Buy a Sonnar.
Most Leica R lenses are nothing special, their price is out of proportion to their actual abilities - they are very overpriced.
You can always get something very close to the Elmarit for very little money by buying a Leitz Colorplan 2.5/90 projector lens and sticking it in a helicoid.
_________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57849 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
+ 1 on colorplan
I did try Elmarit second version at same time with Kaleinar 100mm f2.8 , I didn't see significant difference between them , I sold both after all. None of them was my favorite, I did try also Elmarit M version and version 1 , all went to sale after, nothing special on all.
Sonnar is my favorite ultimate portrait lens, not too sharp lens for portrait , just limited knowledge by photographer how to post process pictures, hair, eyes , clothes etc require sharpest lens what you can afford , skin must be soften, blemishes, removed in post process. Amount of soften matter of taste, from plastic look at one edge to barbarian look at another edge _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57849 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
http://forum.mflenses.com/carl-zeiss-sonnar-85mm-f2-8-rollei-qbm-sony-nex-7-t72505,highlight,%2Bsonnar+%2B85mm.html
http://forum.mflenses.com/sonnar-85mm-contax-f2-8-carl-zeiss-portrait-sony-nex-7-t71438,highlight,%2Bsonnar+%2B85mm.html
http://forum.mflenses.com/carl-zeiss-sonnar-85mm-f2-8-rollei-qbm-sony-nex-7-portrait-t68055,highlight,%2Bsonnar+%2B85mm.html
My elmarit 90mm shoots are lost on server so I can't link them here.
I found Leica 100mm f4 shoots , this lens is still with me I love it a lot
http://forum.mflenses.com/leitz-macro-elmarit-4-100-leica-r-t37943,highlight,%2Belmarit+%2B90.html _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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manufelices
Joined: 22 Oct 2015 Posts: 10
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Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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manufelices wrote:
So, do you think Zeiss is the best in objective terms for general use? |
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Rolf
Joined: 02 May 2009 Posts: 4123 Location: NRW/Germany
Expire: 2015-12-26
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Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Rolf wrote:
I would go for the Leica Summicron 2/90 (or for another F=2.0 or better lens with 90 to 135 mm)
http://forum.mflenses.com/nikon-d800-and-leica-r-summicron-2-90mm-t69073,highlight,%2Bleica+%2B2+%2B90+%2Bsummicron.html
(Unfortunately due to a server error many samples were lost)
Really sharp enough for a portrait with very smooth background (bokeh). There is no need for a super sharp lens for portrait shots - or do you like to see any pimple in the face ?
_________________ Rolf |
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newst
Joined: 21 Oct 2014 Posts: 617 Location: Troy, MI USA
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Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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newst wrote:
You could save a few dollars and try out a Jupiter 9, 2.0/85 Sonnar. At f2.0 it isn't as razor sharp as the Zeiss is at f2.8.
Taken with a Sony A7II.
_________________ Steve
Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway. |
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uhoh7
Joined: 24 Nov 2010 Posts: 1300 Location: Idaho, USA
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Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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uhoh7 wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
Most Leica R lenses are nothing special |
How on earth would you know? Do you own any? Have you borrowed any? Do you have any firsthand experience at all with them?
Oh no, they have that terrible Leica name and they cost too much. Have you priced them? You know most are a fraction of the price of M glass? You have a clue what makes a good portrait lens? You think bokeh is nothing in that application? For portraits its more critical than sharpness, by far. You do not realize this?
I wish I could say I was surprised at such arrogant ignorance, but it's boringly predictable, Ian. _________________ Making MFlenses safe for the letter *L* |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:15 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I'm not even going to bother to dignify such trolling with an answer. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3669 Location: Calgary
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:03 am Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
Lets play nice guys.
I think you'll be happy with either of them. _________________ A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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paulhofseth
Joined: 05 Mar 2011 Posts: 564 Location: Norway
Expire: 2018-06-28
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:01 am Post subject: colorplan |
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paulhofseth wrote:
Good idea to use a projector lens for this particular purpose.
I have used the Colorplan for projecting slides, very good, but when I found the 90mm Zeiss P-Planar I convinced myself that it was better, so now the Leitz equivalent lives in a drawer.
If you choose the Colorplan, there are about 4 versions. The two first, German made metal and Portugal made with a bit less metal are claimed to be equivalent. The CF version converts a cardboard framed, curved film plane to a flat screen image. The last, Colorplan 2 ir reputed to be the best. Perhaps it followed the R and M Elmarit design improvements since it would make sense to maintain one production line for lens elements rather than two.
p. |
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manufelices
Joined: 22 Oct 2015 Posts: 10
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:12 am Post subject: |
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manufelices wrote:
The one that I have the oportunity to buy has this serial number: 3088416
Is this the model I or II?? There is confusion about that because in some webs is the version I and in others the II... |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7553 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:19 am Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
manufelices wrote: |
The one that I have the oportunity to buy has this serial number: 3088416
Is this the model I or II?? There is confusion about that because in some webs is the version I and in others the II... |
Type II, E55 filter.
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/90mm_f/2.8_Elmarit-R_II _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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manufelices
Joined: 22 Oct 2015 Posts: 10
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:20 am Post subject: |
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manufelices wrote:
Thanks a lot!! |
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bernhardas
Joined: 01 Jan 2013 Posts: 1437
Expire: 2017-05-23
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:39 am Post subject: Re: colorplan |
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bernhardas wrote:
Edited
Last edited by bernhardas on Tue May 10, 2016 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:56 am Post subject: Re: colorplan |
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tb_a wrote:
bernhardas wrote: |
paulhofseth wrote: |
Good idea to use a projector lens for this particular purpose.
I have used the Colorplan for projecting slides, very good, but when I found the 90mm Zeiss P-Planar I convinced myself that it was better, so now the Leitz equivalent lives in a drawer.
If you choose the Colorplan, there are about 4 versions. The two first, German made metal and Portugal made with a bit less metal are claimed to be equivalent. The CF version converts a cardboard framed, curved film plane to a flat screen image. The last, Colorplan 2 ir reputed to be the best. Perhaps it followed the R and M Elmarit design improvements since it would make sense to maintain one production line for lens elements rather than two.
p. |
I have both colorplan versions (Germany/Portugal). In this admittedly small sample the later Portugal version seems to have a better coating and flares much less.
Also interesting (however not in sharpness) is the 135 Hektor that was sold by Leica as a "soft focus" lens. (it is not a true soft focus, just not as sharp as the rest )
It is also available quite cheaply as projector lens. |
It is true that the first version of the Elmarit-R is sharing the most characteristics with the Colorplan but the version 2 is according Erwin Puts a different (newly computed) design and therefore not comparable. So in this case is very important to refer to the correct version if comparisons are made as otherwise it may lead to wrong conclusions.
However, the version 1 isn't bad as well. _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here).
Last edited by tb_a on Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:01 am Post subject: Re: colorplan |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
bernhardas wrote: |
paulhofseth wrote: |
Good idea to use a projector lens for this particular purpose.
I have used the Colorplan for projecting slides, very good, but when I found the 90mm Zeiss P-Planar I convinced myself that it was better, so now the Leitz equivalent lives in a drawer.
If you choose the Colorplan, there are about 4 versions. The two first, German made metal and Portugal made with a bit less metal are claimed to be equivalent. The CF version converts a cardboard framed, curved film plane to a flat screen image. The last, Colorplan 2 ir reputed to be the best. Perhaps it followed the R and M Elmarit design improvements since it would make sense to maintain one production line for lens elements rather than two.
p. |
I have both colorplan versions (Germany/Portugal). In this admittedly small sample the later Portugal version seems to have a better coating and flares much less.
Also interesting (however not in sharpness) is the 135 Hektor that was sold by Leica as a "soft focus" lens. (it is not a true soft focus, just not as sharp as the rest )
It is also available quite cheaply as projector lens. |
I have a Hektor projector lens, 120mm I think. I put it to one side a while ago as I was sure I must have put the elements back in wrong as it is soft. I'll have to dig it out and try it again, see if I can figure out the issue. There's an 85mm Hektor projector lens too.
On the other end of the scale, a huge 5.6/200 Leitz Dimar sold for 15ukp on ebay this week, I think it was from an epidiascope.
I sort of lost interest in Leitz projector lenses after I discovered how good the Schneider ones are, but there are definitely some interesting and excellent Leitz ones that can be had pretty cheaply. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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