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Carl Zeiss Sonnar 85 f2.8 versus Leica Elmarit-R 90 f2.8
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:42 pm    Post subject: Carl Zeiss Sonnar 85 f2.8 versus Leica Elmarit-R 90 f2.8 Reply with quote
Hi everyone! Which do you think is better for portrait? I have a canon 50D and a NEX a6000. Is the Leica the sharpest?


PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I just bought a the Sonnar ( QBM) to use on an A7. It is too sharp for portrait ! Laughing


PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sonnar is sharper, I like it better , both excellent lens.


PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
the Sonnar is small like a 50mm lens, very sharp and has a nice pop


PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Difficult question and not easy as both lenses are available in different variants from different production plants from different countries.

However, what I've seen in direct comparisons so far the Zeiss lens is more prone to CA's when fully open. When stopped down there is hardly any difference in optical quality.
So therefore I would rather recommend the more expensive Leitz lens as especially for portraits the likelihood to use it fully open is much bigger.

I don't have the R- but the equally constructed M-version of the Elmarit 90/2.8 lens and cannot say anything bad about it. I would buy it again.


PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have both lenses, and used both for portraits. I have an MMG copy of the Sonnar (basically the latest) and the 1st version of the Leica. Here are my observations.

Sharpness: the Zeiss is sharper at all apertures.
Contrast: the Zeiss has far stronger contrast and micro contrast. The Leica, on the other hand, may look better for portraits.
Flare: the Zeiss... you guessed it. Its smaller front element and far better coatings (compared to the 1st version of the Leica, which is very old) do the job.
Out of focus rendition: the Leica draws much smoother bokeh. No comparison.
3D effect: Zeiss. Hands down.
Colors: both are great, no visible difference to my eye.
Handling: the Leica is much bigger and much, much heavier. It'll probably survive a war. The Zeiss is very compact and light.

Overall, these two lenses are distinctly different. I like both; they are not interchangeable.

Lenses similar to Zeiss Sonnar: Rolleinar 85/2.8.
Lenses that render similar to Leica 90/2.8 (I'm not talking about sharpness here, just rendering): Mitakon 85/2.8, Jupiter 85/2 (stopped down to 2.Cool, maybe Minolta MC 85/1.7 (at 2.Cool and maaaaybe Nikkor Ai 85/2 (stopped down to 2.Cool.


PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
aoleg wrote:
I have both lenses, and used both for portraits. I have an MMG copy of the Sonnar (basically the latest) and the 1st version of the Leica. Here are my observations.


Maybe you should also state that the difference between the first and the last Leica-R lens is rather huge. According Puts the last version of the Leica one was an outstanding and excellent lens and far better than the first version.

Would be interesting how a comparison of similar age would look like. The comparison I mentioned earlier was about lenses from the 1990's and there the picture looks a little bit different, i.e. more in favor of the Leitz lens.

However, your comparison with the Minolta 85/1.7 and Jupiter 85/2 lens in terms of rendering is quite interesting. I never realized that before. Have to check it myself. Wink


PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you guys! Ufffff. This is not easy at all...


PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, it seems obvious which is the better portrait lens. Wink

Aoleg makes it pretty clear.

For landscape, I'd take the zeiss Smile


PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Buy a Sonnar.

Most Leica R lenses are nothing special, their price is out of proportion to their actual abilities - they are very overpriced.

You can always get something very close to the Elmarit for very little money by buying a Leitz Colorplan 2.5/90 projector lens and sticking it in a helicoid.





PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like Dog + 1 on colorplan

I did try Elmarit second version at same time with Kaleinar 100mm f2.8 , I didn't see significant difference between them , I sold both after all. None of them was my favorite, I did try also Elmarit M version and version 1 , all went to sale after, nothing special on all.
Sonnar is my favorite ultimate portrait lens, not too sharp lens for portrait , just limited knowledge by photographer how to post process pictures, hair, eyes , clothes etc require sharpest lens what you can afford , skin must be soften, blemishes, removed in post process. Amount of soften matter of taste, from plastic look at one edge to barbarian look at another edge Smile


PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
http://forum.mflenses.com/carl-zeiss-sonnar-85mm-f2-8-rollei-qbm-sony-nex-7-t72505,highlight,%2Bsonnar+%2B85mm.html
http://forum.mflenses.com/sonnar-85mm-contax-f2-8-carl-zeiss-portrait-sony-nex-7-t71438,highlight,%2Bsonnar+%2B85mm.html
http://forum.mflenses.com/carl-zeiss-sonnar-85mm-f2-8-rollei-qbm-sony-nex-7-portrait-t68055,highlight,%2Bsonnar+%2B85mm.html


My elmarit 90mm shoots are lost on server so I can't link them here.
I found Leica 100mm f4 shoots , this lens is still with me I love it a lot

http://forum.mflenses.com/leitz-macro-elmarit-4-100-leica-r-t37943,highlight,%2Belmarit+%2B90.html


PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
So, do you think Zeiss is the best in objective terms for general use?


PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I would go for the Leica Summicron 2/90 (or for another F=2.0 or better lens with 90 to 135 mm)

http://forum.mflenses.com/nikon-d800-and-leica-r-summicron-2-90mm-t69073,highlight,%2Bleica+%2B2+%2B90+%2Bsummicron.html

(Unfortunately due to a server error many samples were lost)

Really sharp enough for a portrait with very smooth background (bokeh). There is no need for a super sharp lens for portrait shots - or do you like to see any pimple in the face ?


Wink


PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
You could save a few dollars and try out a Jupiter 9, 2.0/85 Sonnar. At f2.0 it isn't as razor sharp as the Zeiss is at f2.8.

Taken with a Sony A7II.






PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:

Most Leica R lenses are nothing special


How on earth would you know? Do you own any? Have you borrowed any? Do you have any firsthand experience at all with them?

Oh no, they have that terrible Leica name and they cost too much. Have you priced them? You know most are a fraction of the price of M glass? You have a clue what makes a good portrait lens? You think bokeh is nothing in that application? For portraits its more critical than sharpness, by far. You do not realize this?

I wish I could say I was surprised at such arrogant ignorance, but it's boringly predictable, Ian.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm not even going to bother to dignify such trolling with an answer.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lets play nice guys.
I think you'll be happy with either of them.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:01 am    Post subject: colorplan Reply with quote
Good idea to use a projector lens for this particular purpose.

I have used the Colorplan for projecting slides, very good, but when I found the 90mm Zeiss P-Planar I convinced myself that it was better, so now the Leitz equivalent lives in a drawer.

If you choose the Colorplan, there are about 4 versions. The two first, German made metal and Portugal made with a bit less metal are claimed to be equivalent. The CF version converts a cardboard framed, curved film plane to a flat screen image. The last, Colorplan 2 ir reputed to be the best. Perhaps it followed the R and M Elmarit design improvements since it would make sense to maintain one production line for lens elements rather than two.

p.


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The one that I have the oportunity to buy has this serial number: 3088416
Is this the model I or II?? There is confusion about that because in some webs is the version I and in others the II...


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
manufelices wrote:
The one that I have the oportunity to buy has this serial number: 3088416
Is this the model I or II?? There is confusion about that because in some webs is the version I and in others the II...

Type II, E55 filter.
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/90mm_f/2.8_Elmarit-R_II


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks a lot!!


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: colorplan Reply with quote
Edited

Last edited by bernhardas on Tue May 10, 2016 5:04 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: colorplan Reply with quote
bernhardas wrote:
paulhofseth wrote:
Good idea to use a projector lens for this particular purpose.

I have used the Colorplan for projecting slides, very good, but when I found the 90mm Zeiss P-Planar I convinced myself that it was better, so now the Leitz equivalent lives in a drawer.

If you choose the Colorplan, there are about 4 versions. The two first, German made metal and Portugal made with a bit less metal are claimed to be equivalent. The CF version converts a cardboard framed, curved film plane to a flat screen image. The last, Colorplan 2 ir reputed to be the best. Perhaps it followed the R and M Elmarit design improvements since it would make sense to maintain one production line for lens elements rather than two.

p.


I have both colorplan versions (Germany/Portugal). In this admittedly small sample the later Portugal version seems to have a better coating and flares much less.

Also interesting (however not in sharpness) is the 135 Hektor that was sold by Leica as a "soft focus" lens. (it is not a true soft focus, just not as sharp as the rest )
It is also available quite cheaply as projector lens.


It is true that the first version of the Elmarit-R is sharing the most characteristics with the Colorplan but the version 2 is according Erwin Puts a different (newly computed) design and therefore not comparable. So in this case is very important to refer to the correct version if comparisons are made as otherwise it may lead to wrong conclusions.
However, the version 1 isn't bad as well. Wink

Last edited by tb_a on Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: colorplan Reply with quote
bernhardas wrote:
paulhofseth wrote:
Good idea to use a projector lens for this particular purpose.

I have used the Colorplan for projecting slides, very good, but when I found the 90mm Zeiss P-Planar I convinced myself that it was better, so now the Leitz equivalent lives in a drawer.

If you choose the Colorplan, there are about 4 versions. The two first, German made metal and Portugal made with a bit less metal are claimed to be equivalent. The CF version converts a cardboard framed, curved film plane to a flat screen image. The last, Colorplan 2 ir reputed to be the best. Perhaps it followed the R and M Elmarit design improvements since it would make sense to maintain one production line for lens elements rather than two.

p.


I have both colorplan versions (Germany/Portugal). In this admittedly small sample the later Portugal version seems to have a better coating and flares much less.

Also interesting (however not in sharpness) is the 135 Hektor that was sold by Leica as a "soft focus" lens. (it is not a true soft focus, just not as sharp as the rest )
It is also available quite cheaply as projector lens.


I have a Hektor projector lens, 120mm I think. I put it to one side a while ago as I was sure I must have put the elements back in wrong as it is soft. I'll have to dig it out and try it again, see if I can figure out the issue. There's an 85mm Hektor projector lens too.

On the other end of the scale, a huge 5.6/200 Leitz Dimar sold for 15ukp on ebay this week, I think it was from an epidiascope.

I sort of lost interest in Leitz projector lenses after I discovered how good the Schneider ones are, but there are definitely some interesting and excellent Leitz ones that can be had pretty cheaply.
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