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Langstrum
Joined: 16 Feb 2014 Posts: 351
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:45 pm Post subject: A sensor-shifting camera for autofocusing MF lenses |
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Langstrum wrote:
Great news from Sony. Even though this rumor started from last year, they made it more believable with a new patent. I know that this technique was used on the Contax AX but with the advantage of new technology and especially mirrorless camera, it can be upgraded to a new level. This could be a slap to DSLR market and Sony's competitors. Probably it will be for the new A7000.
http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/sony-patent-adds-focusing-on-all-manual-lenses-olympus-working-on-qx-style-camera
All of us here don't mind manual focus, but sometimes AF really helps, and I can think of it as a solution to the differences in the flange focal distance among cameras. Also, for macro guys, stacking can be done very easily! _________________
Camera: Sony A7 mark III, A6300
AF Lenses:
Canon EF 50/1.8; EF 200/2.8 L, EF 200/1.8 L, EF 300/4 L Sony E mount SEL 50/1.8 OSS, SEL 16/2.8 Fuji X mount XF 35/1.4 R
MF Lenses: Peleng MC 8/3.5, 17/2.8 Samyang 14/T3.1, 35/T1.5, TS 24/3.5 ED, 85/T1.5, Polar 85/1.4 Auto Revuenon 28/2.8; MC 50/1.4 Vega11U 50/2.8 Carl Zeiss Tessar 50/2.8 (exakta mount) Auto Chinon 50/1.9 Zenitar ME1 50/1.7 Sears Auto Sears 55/1.4; Sears 135/2.8 Auto Yashinon DX 50/1.4; Tomioka 50/1.2 SMC Pentax 50/1.7; 50/1.4 Canon FD 50/1.4 S.S.C; 55/1.2 S.S.C; FD 50/1.2 L; FD 85/1.2 L; 85/1.2 S.S.C Aspherical; FD 80-200/4 L 300/2.8 S.S.C Fluorite FD 300/2.8 L FD 200/1.8 LCosina-S 50/1.2 Helios Helios 44 Chrome f/22, 44-2, 44-3, 44M-4, 44M-7 (58/2), Helios-40 85/1.5 Jupiter Jupiter-9 85/2; Jupiter-37A 135/3.5; Jupiter-21M 200/4 Nikon Ai 105/2.5 Tairs-3S 300/4.5
Voigtlander 15/4.5 Aspherical; Ultron 35/1.7
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kuuan
Joined: 14 Jan 2008 Posts: 4573 Location: right now: Austria
Expire: 2014-12-26
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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kuuan wrote:
this would be fabulous!
this would not only boost the usefulness of our manual lenses, but thinking how much many of the better AF lenses cost, most likely also their value _________________ my photos on flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/collections |
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Langstrum
Joined: 16 Feb 2014 Posts: 351
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Langstrum wrote:
kuuan wrote: |
this would be fabulous!
this would not only boost the usefulness of our manual lenses, but thinking how much many of the better AF lenses cost, most likely also their value |
Third party companies like Samyang and Zhongyi must celebrate this news, no more complaints on the lack of the AF. I wonder when the prices for vintage lenses will climb up. It's really another game changer from Sony.
Maybe it also can help Sony sensor to do a better job on image stabilization because it can move with one more level of freedom. Fascinating! _________________
Camera: Sony A7 mark III, A6300
AF Lenses:
Canon EF 50/1.8; EF 200/2.8 L, EF 200/1.8 L, EF 300/4 L Sony E mount SEL 50/1.8 OSS, SEL 16/2.8 Fuji X mount XF 35/1.4 R
MF Lenses: Peleng MC 8/3.5, 17/2.8 Samyang 14/T3.1, 35/T1.5, TS 24/3.5 ED, 85/T1.5, Polar 85/1.4 Auto Revuenon 28/2.8; MC 50/1.4 Vega11U 50/2.8 Carl Zeiss Tessar 50/2.8 (exakta mount) Auto Chinon 50/1.9 Zenitar ME1 50/1.7 Sears Auto Sears 55/1.4; Sears 135/2.8 Auto Yashinon DX 50/1.4; Tomioka 50/1.2 SMC Pentax 50/1.7; 50/1.4 Canon FD 50/1.4 S.S.C; 55/1.2 S.S.C; FD 50/1.2 L; FD 85/1.2 L; 85/1.2 S.S.C Aspherical; FD 80-200/4 L 300/2.8 S.S.C Fluorite FD 300/2.8 L FD 200/1.8 LCosina-S 50/1.2 Helios Helios 44 Chrome f/22, 44-2, 44-3, 44M-4, 44M-7 (58/2), Helios-40 85/1.5 Jupiter Jupiter-9 85/2; Jupiter-37A 135/3.5; Jupiter-21M 200/4 Nikon Ai 105/2.5 Tairs-3S 300/4.5
Voigtlander 15/4.5 Aspherical; Ultron 35/1.7
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7554 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
AF will be nice for certain occasion. Moreover, I am more interested in the per-pixel-shutter sensor.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-patent-discloses-groundbreaking-per-pixel-exposure-sensor/ _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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kuuan
Joined: 14 Jan 2008 Posts: 4573 Location: right now: Austria
Expire: 2014-12-26
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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kuuan wrote:
Right, Zhong Yi is doing great, these good, fast but affordable Mitakons are very attractive. Sony certainly is the biggest innovative camera maker, and has even made many of those who only shook their heads at NEXes in the beginning into converts
.......
In a way I have been hoping that Pentax ( Ricoh ) might come forward with something similar, after all they have long experience with sensor shift stabilization and lately also, being the only one, with a shifting sensor simulating AA filter. Certainly I am fine with Sony though, just hope they also would give us a model with a tilting EVF, still missing a FF mirrorless that has this. It's so very helpful not only for 'difficult' angles but also to hold the camera more stable. Just today did shots with my Ricoh GXR M sharp at 1/13 and 1/15 sec. handhold without stabilization. _________________ my photos on flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/collections |
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Langstrum
Joined: 16 Feb 2014 Posts: 351
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Langstrum wrote:
I found it too, but it's less believable than the shifting sensor. First, light meter should work on every pixel, accurately and rapidly, and it will take more time for getting feedback from the sensor. Second, there is no details on how they can control the different exposure using only one shutter. I imagine that it's easily to get a messed up HDR under the complicated light condition. But anyway, it's still a cool idea and I don't mind to welcome it once it becomes true
kuuan wrote: |
Right, Zhong Yi is doing great, these good, fast but affordable Mitakons are very attractive. Sony certainly is the biggest innovative camera maker, and has even made many of those who only shook their heads at NEXes in the beginning into converts Wink
.......
In a way I have been hoping that Pentax ( Ricoh ) might come forward with something similar, after all they have long experience with sensor shift stabilization and lately also, being the only one, with a shifting sensor simulating AA filter. Certainly I am fine with Sony though, just hope they also would give us a model with a tilting EVF, still missing a FF mirrorless that has this. It's so very helpful not only for 'difficult' angles but also to hold the camera more stable. Just today did shots with my Ricoh GXR M sharp at 1/13 and 1/15 sec. handhold without stabilization. |
Other companies will have to pay up later if they're not innovative, and currently following Sony is still not a bad idea. Recently Olympus also copied the smart lens of Sony, so we can expect similar moves from Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc.
And the 1/13 sec is very impressive , I can do to up to just 1/20 sec with 50mm lenses _________________
Camera: Sony A7 mark III, A6300
AF Lenses:
Canon EF 50/1.8; EF 200/2.8 L, EF 200/1.8 L, EF 300/4 L Sony E mount SEL 50/1.8 OSS, SEL 16/2.8 Fuji X mount XF 35/1.4 R
MF Lenses: Peleng MC 8/3.5, 17/2.8 Samyang 14/T3.1, 35/T1.5, TS 24/3.5 ED, 85/T1.5, Polar 85/1.4 Auto Revuenon 28/2.8; MC 50/1.4 Vega11U 50/2.8 Carl Zeiss Tessar 50/2.8 (exakta mount) Auto Chinon 50/1.9 Zenitar ME1 50/1.7 Sears Auto Sears 55/1.4; Sears 135/2.8 Auto Yashinon DX 50/1.4; Tomioka 50/1.2 SMC Pentax 50/1.7; 50/1.4 Canon FD 50/1.4 S.S.C; 55/1.2 S.S.C; FD 50/1.2 L; FD 85/1.2 L; 85/1.2 S.S.C Aspherical; FD 80-200/4 L 300/2.8 S.S.C Fluorite FD 300/2.8 L FD 200/1.8 LCosina-S 50/1.2 Helios Helios 44 Chrome f/22, 44-2, 44-3, 44M-4, 44M-7 (58/2), Helios-40 85/1.5 Jupiter Jupiter-9 85/2; Jupiter-37A 135/3.5; Jupiter-21M 200/4 Nikon Ai 105/2.5 Tairs-3S 300/4.5
Voigtlander 15/4.5 Aspherical; Ultron 35/1.7
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kuuan
Joined: 14 Jan 2008 Posts: 4573 Location: right now: Austria
Expire: 2014-12-26
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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kuuan wrote:
the per pixel shutter is fascinating. But me too I think that for that we most likely we have to wait a bit longer still.
Langstrum wrote: |
Other companies will have to pay up later if they're not innovative, and currently following Sony is still not a bad idea. Recently Olympus also copied the smart lens of Sony, so we can expect similar moves from Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc. |
hopefully!
Langstrum wrote: |
And the 1/13 sec is very impressive , I can do to up to just 1/20 sec with 50mm lenses |
1/20 with a 50mm is truly impressive! Mine today were taken with the 15mm Heliar with the 15mm I should be able to do more slow too, but never have tested, down to 1/10 however is common, never any blurred one _________________ my photos on flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kuuan/collections |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7554 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
Moving sensor will only works well with manual lens with unit focusing. It will not works with internal focusing lens and it might not works well with zooms or any lens with floating element(s). _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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Langstrum
Joined: 16 Feb 2014 Posts: 351
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:14 am Post subject: |
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Langstrum wrote:
calvin83 wrote: |
Moving sensor will only works well with manual lens with unit focusing. It will not works with internal focusing lens and it might not works well with zooms or any lens with floating element(s). |
I'm sure it won't be good for lenses with floating element(s) but I don't know about the IF lenses, so they also require a fix distance from sensor to the rear element? _________________
Camera: Sony A7 mark III, A6300
AF Lenses:
Canon EF 50/1.8; EF 200/2.8 L, EF 200/1.8 L, EF 300/4 L Sony E mount SEL 50/1.8 OSS, SEL 16/2.8 Fuji X mount XF 35/1.4 R
MF Lenses: Peleng MC 8/3.5, 17/2.8 Samyang 14/T3.1, 35/T1.5, TS 24/3.5 ED, 85/T1.5, Polar 85/1.4 Auto Revuenon 28/2.8; MC 50/1.4 Vega11U 50/2.8 Carl Zeiss Tessar 50/2.8 (exakta mount) Auto Chinon 50/1.9 Zenitar ME1 50/1.7 Sears Auto Sears 55/1.4; Sears 135/2.8 Auto Yashinon DX 50/1.4; Tomioka 50/1.2 SMC Pentax 50/1.7; 50/1.4 Canon FD 50/1.4 S.S.C; 55/1.2 S.S.C; FD 50/1.2 L; FD 85/1.2 L; 85/1.2 S.S.C Aspherical; FD 80-200/4 L 300/2.8 S.S.C Fluorite FD 300/2.8 L FD 200/1.8 LCosina-S 50/1.2 Helios Helios 44 Chrome f/22, 44-2, 44-3, 44M-4, 44M-7 (58/2), Helios-40 85/1.5 Jupiter Jupiter-9 85/2; Jupiter-37A 135/3.5; Jupiter-21M 200/4 Nikon Ai 105/2.5 Tairs-3S 300/4.5
Voigtlander 15/4.5 Aspherical; Ultron 35/1.7
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7554 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:46 am Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
Langstrum wrote: |
calvin83 wrote: |
Moving sensor will only works well with manual lens with unit focusing. It will not works with internal focusing lens and it might not works well with zooms or any lens with floating element(s). |
I'm sure it won't be good for lenses with floating element(s) but I don't know about the IF lenses, so they also require a fix distance from sensor to the rear element? |
You can do a experiment yourself by placing your 85mm T1.5(an IF lens) into an bellow/helicoid to your NEX. _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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dan_
Joined: 05 Dec 2012 Posts: 1054 Location: Romania
Expire: 2016-12-19
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:52 am Post subject: |
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dan_ wrote:
calvin83 wrote: |
Moving sensor will only works well with manual lens with unit focusing. It will not works with internal focusing lens and it might not works well with zooms or any lens with floating element(s). |
That's right, but it could still be very useful. It will not work with tele-lenses on close focus, too - the shifting distance can't be that long.
But I think it is intended to work as an addition to the manual focus. You first pre-focus manually a little further than the intended focus point and the sensor shift automatically makes the precise adjustment. Used this way it could work quite well with internal focusing lenses and tele-lenses, too. |
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calvin83
Joined: 12 Apr 2009 Posts: 7554 Location: Hong Kong
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Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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calvin83 wrote:
dan_ wrote: |
calvin83 wrote: |
Moving sensor will only works well with manual lens with unit focusing. It will not works with internal focusing lens and it might not works well with zooms or any lens with floating element(s). |
That's right, but it could still be very useful. It will not work with tele-lenses on close focus, too - the shifting distance can't be that long.
But I think it is intended to work as an addition to the manual focus. You first pre-focus manually a little further than the intended focus point and the sensor shift automatically makes the precise adjustment. Used this way it could work quite well with internal focusing lenses and tele-lenses, too. |
Good idea! Some lens is hard to nail the focus and sensor shift can help to achieve precise adjustment. _________________ https://lensfever.com/
https://www.instagram.com/_lens_fever/
The best lens is the one you have with you. |
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