Thinking About Buying a Moskva 6x9

[cooltouch]

I'll admit that I find the prices these cameras sell for on eBay very attractive. And I have heard that these cameras are actually good shooters -- if you get a good one, I suppose.

Right now, I'm seeing Moskva 2s, 4s, and 5s offered for sale on eBay. The 2s and 4s have the Industar 23 (110mm f/4.5) lens and the 5s come with the Industar 24 (105mm f/3.5) apparently. The 2s and 4s look like direct Zeiss Super Ikonta C clones, whereas the 5 has a more updated, modern look to it, sort of like the Super Ikonta III or IV.

Assuming any of the cameras offered for sale are in good mechanical and optical condition, which would you recommend? Also, what are the main differences between the 2 and the 4? It looks to me like the 2 does not have flash sync, whereas the 4 has the standard push-connector flash sync, as does the 5. So, if the 2 does not have flash sync, then I'm not interested in it. Which narrows things down to the 4 or 5. So, I'm wondering, which is the better lens -- the 110/4.5 or the 105/3..5. On a 6x9 format, the 105 is slightly wider, which could be a plus. I also saw a listing for a Super Ikonta C with a 120mm lens, so the old Soviet cameras have substantially wider angle lenses than the Zeiss cameras do. Interesting.

So which should I think about buying? The 4 or the 5? Any of you have any photos you've taken with these cameras you'd care to share? If so, please post them here. Thanks.

[visualopsins]

http://forum.mflenses.com/fs.php?sw=moskva

[Kamerer]

Moskva-5:

[cooltouch]

Thanks for the link, Visualopsins. I've read through a lot of the threads and it's helped me make up my mind further.

And Kamerer, I appreciate you showing me some images. Were these slides, by any chance? They seem to have the superior saturation I expect to see with slides. Your Moskva 5's lens shows outstanding corner sharpness, especially as shown in your first and third images. Of course, the center sharpness is great, but having a camera that holds sharpness out to the edges and corners with that big 6x9 negative (or slide) really adds a lot to the quality of an image.

I had pretty much made up my mind to go with the Moskva 5 before seeing your photos, and now I'm convinced that this is the one I want. Tell me, since you live there, do you have any recommendations I should follow when buying from one of the eBay sellers of these cameras? A few whose listings I've read through seem to be quite professional in their approach and presentation. I'm also thinking that I should avoid buying the cheapest I see and that there's probably no good reason for buying the most expensive I see, but the middle range seems to have a decent selection of quality cameras.

[Kamerer]

[Kamerer]

If you can buy a camera without shipment, it is necessary to pay attention to:
1. fur no defects.
2. Shutter works on all exposures.
3. Lens clearly fixed in work position and not loose.
4. glass lens clean
5. rangefinder accurate

[Kamerer]

Moskva-5 Kodak T-Max 400

[cooltouch]

Thanks for your advice, it's much appreciated. Well, I can't read Cyrillic, so the link you sent isn't doing me any good. But I can send him an email. Does he understand English? Sorry, my Russian is nonexistent.

Here are some (US) eBay sellers, all of whom live in Russia or Ukraine or Estonia, etc., who have Moskva 5's for sale:

Click here to see on Ebay
Click here to see on Ebay
Click here to see on Ebay
Click here to see on Ebay
Click here to see on Ebay
Click here to see on Ebay

And there are still quite a few more. As you can see, almost all of the cameras I've selected appear to be in very good condition. I haven't checked all of the above sellers' feedback yet, but the few I have checked have great feedback scores. And some of them not only have very high scores, but they have many, many feedbacks. Which tells me they've been in the business for a while and they have satisfied customers. Plus, several of them have rather extensive collections of Soviet/Russian cameras and lenses for sale, so I might be able to find a good deal on a decent LTM wide angle at the same time. (I'm also in the market for a wide angle for my Canon rangefinders.)

So, what do you think?

Oh, and I really like your B&W image, by the way. Great tonality, sharpness, and contrast.

[Kamerer]

[tb_a]

@Michael,

I've bought all my Russian gear directly from such vendors from Russia, Ukraine, Latvia, etc. Several cameras and many lenses and accessories.
I NEVER had any troubles and everything was as described and fully working. So the success rate was 100%. Sometimes the shipping takes up to two weeks.
On the other hand I had many troubles with vendors from the U.S., although they had very good ratings on Ebay. That's one of the reason why I don't buy any longer from there, though the prices for e.g. Japanese gear are much lower than in Europe.
So the more serious and trustworthy vendors are definitely not in your country, at least from my own "Evil-bay" experience.

Just my 2 cents.

[Gamera]

Moskva-2 and Moskva-5 have a 95 % similarity. Moskva-5 has (should have, it is often missing) the 6x6 mask. For shooting 6x6 there is a lot of quality cameras readily available. So this should be no problem. M-5 has the flash sync, but most M-2s do not. But there are transitional models around -54 and -55. Some M-2:s have the flash connection. If You can spot it in a picture it is close to the cocking lever. The 4.5/11cm P-coated Industar-lens on both models is a gem and both models usually have the Moment-1 shutter. With a camera 60 years or older prepare to pay for CLA, no matter what the seller says.
Don't fall for the exotic brown/red/whatever leatherettes. They are all faux and the cameras are junk.

[Nesster]

moskva-2 by Jussi, on Flickr

I bought a Moskva-2 from a former art student for a very good price - the bellows do not unfold cleanly but are light tight, and one of the tripod bushings is missing. The nice thing about the lens is it takes Series V accessories directly.
My camera came with film in it:
Found Film - Moskva 2 by Jussi, on Flickr

and I have used it fairly often... I would not kick it off the tripod for a Moskva 5

Full of Grace by Jussi, on Flickr

[cooltouch]

Very nice, Jussi. The only reason why I've said "No" to the Moskva 2 is because doesn't have a flash sync.

[Olivier]

A little late but this link about Moskba-5 is worth it.
http://www.johndesq.com/moskva5/

and here's a review.
http://blog.bkspicture.com/review_Moskva-5.html

and did you buy it Michael ?

[cooltouch]

Ah, yes, I bought it. Sorry for not reposting the info here, but I posted some pics of it in the What Are the Biggest Bargains . . . thread. Here are the pics of the Moskva 5 I bought.






As the images show, cosmetically it is somewhat rough. But the lens is spotless, the bellows are light tight and the shutter speeds are accurate, near as I can tell. Mechanically, it has a couple of problems. The button on the top does not open the bellows. And the latch that secures the bellows has some slop to it (I can push the front standard in and out maybe 2 or 3 mm from the fully retracted position). I learned quickly the best way to open the bellows is to hold the camera securely in my right hand, then gently rap the right corner of the camera against my left hand. This causes the bellows to pop open and to almost fully extend. I have to help them along for the remaining centimeter or so.

I've got a roll of T-Max 100 loaded in it right now -- the first roll I've put into the camera -- and I still have about half the roll left to shoot. Need to get out there and finish it off.

[Olivier]

Congrats, Michael.

Here is mine, made in 1959 like yours.
I still have a roll of T-Max400 to load in it and try it.
The other T-Max400 rolls I tried in TLRs : Mamiya Sekor C3 Professional, Royer Royflex and Zeiss Ikon Ikoflex.
What a difference with digital cams ! 2 months to finish the 8 poses in the Ikoflex. It's difficult to find subjects worth the shot.


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#2

#3

[cooltouch]

Yours is definitely in better shape than mine. And, you have the mask! I've seen just the mask advertised on eBay for entirely too much money, for the most part. And, I don't need it. I have three other mf 6x6 cameras -- a Yashica Mat 124, a Zeiss Ikonta, and an Agfa Isolette III.

Welp, it's already after 4pm here and I haven't made it out of the house yet to take any pics. Guess I need to think about doing this real soon if I hope to capture any good ones.