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Going price of Zunow 50mm 1.1 Lens
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:57 am    Post subject: Going price of Zunow 50mm 1.1 Lens Reply with quote
I am just curious, as there is a lot of variance in price but not a lot of sample variation- Does anyone know the 'value' of a black Zunow 50mm 1.1, and how does it compare to the value of a chrome body one?
Not really thinking of getting one, just gauging what a good price is on it, out of curiosity and my uncle has the option of buying one. Thanks to anyone in advance for any input.

Last edited by StillSanj on Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:55 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:54 am    Post subject: Re: Going price of Zunow 50mm 1.1 Lens Reply with quote
StillSanj wrote:
I am just curious, as there is a lot of variance in price but not a lot of sample variation- Does anyone know the 'value' of a black Zunow 50mm 1.1, and how does it compare to the value of a black body one?
Not really thinking of getting one, just gauging what a good price is on it, out of curiosity and my uncle has the option of buying one. Thanks to anyone in advance for any input.


You can search here for auction results: http://www.westlicht-auction.com/index.php?id=62&L=1

This well reputed auction house in Vienna is famous to sell extremely rare collector's items for unbelievable prices. On their last auction they had several Zunows on their list.
They sold also the most expensive camera of all times. I think it was last year if my memory serves me right.
BUT, I don't believe that somebody could privately reach similar selling results.

Actually from my own experience (with other collector's items outside the photographic field) there is a certain limit what people are willing to pay for something from private.
I would see this limit somewhere around max. 1 thousand Euro where it's getting really hard to find a buyer, even if the stuff you are trying to sell would be far more expensive at shops or professional auctions. At least that was my lesson what I've learned when I tried to make some deals on collector's items some years ago. Finally I gave up for that reason.

In other words, just because somebody bought a Zunow 50/1.1 in silver recently for apprx. 3.500 Euro there is no guarantee that somebody would buy the same lens directly from you, maybe not even for the half price.
I would certainly never do that.
Even from well reputed auction houses you have to be rather carefully as a buyer nowadays. I had already quite "interesting" experiences in that respect.

Just my 2 cents.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hmm, auction houses such as Westlicht take a hefty premium, both from seller and buyer (some 20% plus 20% Austrian VAT on top of that = 24% if memory serves me right), so this has to be deducted from a price to see the net result. So if we take the mentioned total selling price as EUR3.500, this leaves 2.021,60 to the original seller!


PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow that is very interesting I never thought of that, but it rings true.
I have the option of buying a Leica mount black one for $2200..
Seemed like s good deal, but it would be a rather hard resale at profit margin it appears.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
StillSanj wrote:
Wow that is very interesting I never thought of that, but it rings true.
I have the option of buying a Leica mount black one for $2200..
Seemed like s good deal, but it would be a rather hard resale at profit margin it appears.


If money does matter for you then you better leave it....
From a purely pragmatic point of view there is no point to buy it.
As Klaus mentioned, It may be a good deal for the auction house, but hardly for you.

I don't even know whether this lens has any positive characteristics for real photography other than just being fast. Most probably there are better and cheaper lenses around.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting topic.

Is it possible to estimate price for Soviet Rekord-4 lens?

52mm F0.9

Here's a guy who claims to have one, and wants to sell it...


PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
CuriousOne wrote:
Interesting topic.

Is it possible to estimate price for Soviet Rekord-4 lens?

52mm F0.9

Here's a guy who claims to have one, and wants to sell it...


There is nothing like a "going price" for extremely rare collector's items. The point is that you have to find a collector with deep pockets who is prepared to spend any price as he must have this missing item. Otherwise such items have no realistic value at all. Have you ever tried to sell rare old stamps for the catalog value? I finally preferred to give them as present to a friend instead....

So finally the only deciding factor for any price is only the willingness of the buyer to spend a certain amount for it. No matter how your wishes are as a seller. That's the reality. Wink

Last edited by tb_a on Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, but even approximate value would be nice, $500, 1000, 5000, 50000 or whatsoever...


PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
CuriousOne wrote:
Yes, but even approximate value would be nice, $500, 1000, 5000, 50000 or whatsoever...


Actually I have no idea. If it's really very rare then also the search on auction lists can be very cumbersome to get better ideas about any possible pricing.

To give you an example out of my own experience: It took me more than 1 year of investigation to find 1 auction house who already sold a comparable item which I was interested to sell. The final price is mostly only available on list's per auction number and like on Westlicht not by name.

However, I doesn't help anyway if you don't find another fanatic collector who is prepared to pay a similar price.

I came to the conclusion that when (if at all) I start to sell my rare collector's items I will give it to an reputed auction house and wait for the result without any expectation or I give it to any museum free of charge instead. That would be certainly best for my nerves. Wink

I would really hate the idea to give it to somebody for little money and this person makes the big deal afterwards. That I will avoid for sure. Smile

Sorry.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
As internet says, this lens was made as prototype only, 4 or 6 pcs total. One is at factory's museum, one at private collection in Germany, and others location is unknown.

http://www.sovietcams.com/index.php?-1615255436


PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
So that's how those guys on pawn stars always get those great deals on expensive and rare things..
Anyways, that is a bummer. I've got some extra lens funds, or will have them soon, so I've had my eye on spending/investing it in a more exotic lens.
I kind of have my eye on a Canon 7 Rangefinder with an .95 canon "dream lens". The price is pretty right as of now, I think. We'll see if it will be around when I get my funds.
Also CuriousOne, that is very interesting. If you don't mind me asking- how much is the gentleman asking for it? That might be a good inclination as to it's value as well. Let me know if you find out more.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
StillSanj wrote:
I've got some extra lens funds, or will have them soon, so I've had my eye on spending/investing it in a more exotic lens.
I kind of have my eye on a Canon 7 Rangefinder with an .95 canon "dream lens". The price is pretty right as of now, I think. We'll see if it will be around when I get my funds.


Be careful. You can easily loose a lot of money too with that kind of business, i.e. which seems to be a big deal first can easily also be a big loss afterwards. I thought my hint was clear enough. Wink


PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you can find one cheap, it may be a good investment. Otherwise, it may not be a good idea to spend a lot of it. As mentioned by pacificrimcamera, this lens is prone to aperture failure http://www.pacificrimcamera.com/pp/zunowlensesrf.htm .


PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
tb_a wrote:
CuriousOne wrote:
Interesting topic.

Is it possible to estimate price for Soviet Rekord-4 lens?

52mm F0.9

Here's a guy who claims to have one, and wants to sell it...


There is nothing like a "going price" for extremely rare collector's items. The point is that you have to find a collector with deep pockets who is prepared to spend any price as he must have this missing item. Otherwise such items have no realistic value at all. Have you ever tried to sell rare old stamps for the catalog value? I finally preferred to give them as present to a friend instead....

So finally the only deciding factor for any price is only the willingness of the buyer to spend a certain amount for it. No matter how your wishes are as a seller. That's the reality. Wink


I cannot agree more to what Thomas said here. All these very rare items have prices that are mainly driven by the "want to have" factor of some individuals and cannot be predicted at all, based on the fact that they are very seldom traded in an open market.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
CuriousOne wrote:
As internet says, this lens was made as prototype only, 4 or 6 pcs total. One is at factory's museum, one at private collection in Germany, and others location is unknown.

http://www.sovietcams.com/index.php?-1615255436


Well, if you have money to blow and won't regret buying it, go for it. But as an investment I won't see it, rather than a "gamble" with unpredictable result.
Take the amount you would be willing to spend "worst case", then take half of it and make that your offer. If you get it for that, you have a chance for a win.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
"The Gentleman" is not asking anything at all at the first sight. He's crazy lens collector, has some rare lenses, like Yashma-4 lens with serial "ОПЫТНЫЙ" or something like that, as he claims, it was manufactured and assembled by his passed away father. When you ask him to sell anything from his collection, he either will disagree, or will tell "crazy" (by local means) prices, like $10000, but, if you bring him some rare and interesting (for him) lens, which he does not have in his collection, in exchange, he might grab any random lens (as it might seem) from his collection and handle it to you. His collection mostly includes German and Soviet lenses, so he interested in Japanese ones. For example, during my visit to him, I gave him Chinon 50/1.7, in exchange, he handled me brand new in box, Volna-9 MC macro 50/2.8 lens. I gave him Sears 28/2.8 M42 mount, he gave me Industar-61 M39 mount and so on. Smile


PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
CuriousOne wrote:
"The Gentleman" is not asking anything at all at the first sight. He's crazy lens collector, has some rare lenses, like Yashma-4 lens with serial "ОПЫТНЫЙ" or something like that, as he claims, it was manufactured and assembled by his passed away father. When you ask him to sell anything from his collection, he either will disagree, or will tell "crazy" (by local means) prices, like $10000, but, if you bring him some rare and interesting (for him) lens, which he does not have in his collection, in exchange, he might grab any random lens (as it might seem) from his collection and handle it to you. His collection mostly includes German and Soviet lenses, so he interested in Japanese ones. For example, during my visit to him, I gave him Chinon 50/1.7, in exchange, he handled me brand new in box, Volna-9 MC macro 50/2.8 lens. I gave him Sears 28/2.8 M42 mount, he gave me Industar-61 M39 mount and so on. Smile


Well, that sounds like an excellent chance - go for it!! And bring a good bottle of wine, maybe he then grabs even the better lens for you!! Wink

"ОПЫТНЫЙ" - Experimental lens sounds really exciting, a have a few such prototypes too (Carl Zeiss Jena Topogons etc.)


PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The main problem is, no one ever (as far as I know), ever seen his complete collection, he has lenses in separate room and locks the door behind him, so you can't see anything Smile

For the drinks, he prefers Vodka Smile An Scotch guy once gave him bottle of Johnnie Walker Black label ,and his reply was "thanks, but I prefer vodka without any colorings" Very Happy And if he saw a bottle in your hands, he'll say "Today we're drinking, great!" - This means there will be no lens exchange. He actually knows a lot about Soviet lens designs, and tells quite interesting and sometimes unbelievable stories about how certain lens were made and what funny things happened during their manufacture. Especially interesting are his stories about how they were making Mezon brand lens - one to be used on satellites, and how they were dealing with temperature change problems.

Most funny thing is, he has no camera at all! I mean, he has no working camera which he can grab and take a photo Smile uses his iPhone instead Smile


PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
CuriousOne wrote:
The main problem is, no one ever (as far as I know), ever seen his complete collection, he has lenses in separate room and locks the door behind him, so you can't see anything Smile

For the drinks, he prefers Vodka Smile An Scotch guy once gave him bottle of Johnnie Walker Black label ,and his reply was "thanks, but I prefer vodka without any colorings" Very Happy And if he saw a bottle in your hands, he'll say "Today we're drinking, great!" - This means there will be no lens exchange. He actually knows a lot about Soviet lens designs, and tells quite interesting and sometimes unbelievable stories about how certain lens were made and what funny things happened during their manufacture. Especially interesting are his stories about how they were making Mezon brand lens - one to be used on satellites, and how they were dealing with temperature change problems.

Most funny thing is, he has no camera at all! I mean, he has no working camera which he can grab and take a photo Smile uses his iPhone instead Smile


OK, I see, not a good idea then, need to stay clear of alcohol to get to the "good stuff".
Wonder if he has such MEZON brand lenses in his collection.... Question


PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:
Hmm, auction houses such as Westlicht take a hefty premium, both from seller and buyer (some 20% plus 20% Austrian VAT on top of that = 24% if memory serves me right), so this has to be deducted from a price to see the net result. So if we take the mentioned total selling price as EUR3.500, this leaves 2.021,60 to the original seller!


This is true, but it also means that the buyer was prepared to pay a lot more than the seller got. So the right price in a direct sale should be somewhere in-between. But then again, having a highly respected auction house handle the transaction brings a lot of security for the buyer. It is a lottery.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Most of these Mezons were huge lenses (3.5/800, 6/3000 and so on), I don't think he has one, but who knows...


PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
You can get the similar MS-optical 50mm 1.1 brand new for $1000 Wink
http://www.japanexposures.com/shop/camera-lens/ms-optical-sonnetar-50-1.1.html


PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nordentro wrote:
You can get the similar MS-optical 50mm 1.1 brand new for $1000 Wink
http://www.japanexposures.com/shop/camera-lens/ms-optical-sonnetar-50-1.1.html


From what I've read so far, the Voigtländer Nokton 50/1.1 should be somehow the better choice at apprx. the same price. I don't know.

However, from a practical point of view a F1.1 lens is questionable at all. Try to find the right focus when using it fully open.
The "acceptable", but not really sharp DOF on a typical camera like the A7 or M9 would be max. 10cms at a typical portrait distance.
So you have to be very good to have both the eyes and the nose sharp from a human face on the final picture.

If you look at my already shown pictures from my dog, not even the F1.5 lens manages to show a sharp nose when the eyes are sharp. Not even on the smaller sensor.
Even worse with F1.2 lens as also recently shown here.

Consequently the Nokton 50/1.5 would be by far the best choice in terms of quality for money and also for the practical use.

However, I don't believe that the OP wants to make pictures at all but would rather like to find new possibilities for additional income or loss of money. Wink


PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Sonnetar has quality and handling issues as well. The 1.5 Sonnars are better in practice.

I saw this Zunow 50/ 1.1 on UK ebay for 1600 GBP but it had some fungus if I remember right.
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