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Lens with Bokeh like Meyer Trioplan 100/2.8?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Am I mistaken or are the first two digits of the Tessar serial numbers the year of manufacture? What is yours?


PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
edri wrote:
The Tessar price will raise now. Twisted Evil
Nice bokeh.

Which are the first digits of the serial number for your Tessar?


The serial number is: 6482739. It looks almost like the Trioplan 50mm f/2.9 but the focusing ring is a little bit thicker. It's also a bit sharper than the Trioplan. Here's a photo:


PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
woodrim wrote:
Am I mistaken or are the first two digits of the Tessar serial numbers the year of manufacture? ...


Here: http://forum.mflenses.com/carl-zeiss-jena-lenses-issue-date-by-serial-number-t6865.html


PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Soap bubble bokeh is a beautiful thing.
It can be used to augment an image and to add some "wow" to that image.
But it is not the image.
Too many soap bubble pictures are of soap bubbles only, with virtually nothing in the picture in focus at all.
The sharpest things in the image are the edges of the soap bubbles.
I think that the best of these lenses that give this effect, also allow the photographer to actually get something of the subject in focus.
OH


PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you humulus and edri. Then the demonstrated lens is likely 1963 or 64. I have looked at a lens of #52 which looks to be 1958 or 59. I suppose it too will have the same characteristics. I will be interested to see if it is sharper than the Trioplan I have. Were they many bladed back then? Trioplan was.


PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
Soap bubble bokeh is a beautiful thing.
It can be used to augment an image and to add some "wow" to that image.
But it is not the image.
Too many soap bubble pictures are of soap bubbles only, with virtually nothing in the picture in focus at all.
The sharpest things in the image are the edges of the soap bubbles.
I think that the best of these lenses that give this effect, also allow the photographer to actually get something of the subject in focus.
OH


I agree with you, Oldhand. And I must admit I am guilty at times in finding a weak subject just to take advantage of the background conducive for bubbles. I don't think bokeh alone is a worth photo except in rare cases, but I do think that when using these art lenses the bokeh is one with the image (or subject), not just background, otherwise it would be a distraction. It may not be the best for a serious portrait, but maybe an outdoors one of less formality.

I was recently at a plantation swamp with some beautiful colors. I so much wanted to use it for a Cyclop background, but no worthy subjects. I admit the subject in this was an excuse for the photo, but nevertheless I do like it...


PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
woodrim wrote:
Thank you humulus and edri. Then the demonstrated lens is likely 1963 or 64. I have looked at a lens of #52 which looks to be 1958 or 59. I suppose it too will have the same characteristics. I will be interested to see if it is sharper than the Trioplan I have. Were they many bladed back then? Trioplan was.


I have a '55-58 Tessar.
It has eight blades
OH


PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
woodrim wrote:
Oldhand wrote:
Soap bubble bokeh is a beautiful thing.
It can be used to augment an image and to add some "wow" to that image.
But it is not the image.
Too many soap bubble pictures are of soap bubbles only, with virtually nothing in the picture in focus at all.
The sharpest things in the image are the edges of the soap bubbles.
I think that the best of these lenses that give this effect, also allow the photographer to actually get something of the subject in focus.
OH


I agree with you, Oldhand. And I must admit I am guilty at times in finding a weak subject just to take advantage of the background conducive for bubbles. I don't think bokeh alone is a worth photo except in rare cases, but I do think that when using these art lenses the bokeh is one with the image (or subject), not just background, otherwise it would be a distraction. It may not be the best for a serious portrait, but maybe an outdoors one of less formality.

I was recently at a plantation swamp with some beautiful colors. I so much wanted to use it for a Cyclop background, but no worthy subjects. I admit the subject in this was an excuse for the photo, but nevertheless I do like it...


Almost an image from the French Impressionist school.
Very nicely done indeed
OH


PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
woodrim wrote:
Thank you humulus and edri. Then the demonstrated lens is likely 1963 or 64. I have looked at a lens of #52 which looks to be 1958 or 59. I suppose it too will have the same characteristics. I will be interested to see if it is sharper than the Trioplan I have. Were they many bladed back then? Trioplan was.


I have a '55-58 Tessar.
It has eight blades
OH

Mine is also 8-bladed.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think all the CZJ Tessar 2.8/50 lenses give the same effect wide open. I remember seeing a pic in the Exa group on flickr that had rather pronounced bubble boke' and when I asked about the lens I found it was a common zebra barrel tessar.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Edited

Last edited by bernhardas on Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:16 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mos6502 wrote:
I think all the CZJ Tessar 2.8/50 lenses give the same effect wide open. I remember seeing a pic in the Exa group on flickr that had rather pronounced bubble boke' and when I asked about the lens I found it was a common zebra barrel tessar.


Yep - common as dirt Tessar with and without bokeh circles (not quite soap bubbles here - however close)
OH




PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's a lot of replies, thanks everyone!

Those projection lenses do look interesting, and I think I'll have to get a CZJ Tessar 50/2.8 if I see a good deal on one...

As for using a projection lens, the Diaplan or the Pentacon AV discussed earlier for example, how would I go about mounting one of these to a DSLR? I assume the flange focal distance of my EOS DSLR will stop me reaching infinity?


PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
AlexWicks: Tessars are plentiful and cheap. Trioplan 2.9/50 not quite as plentiful, but still not expensive. I chose the Altix version which may be a better version (hearsay) and in my opinion, gives a better ring bokeh. However, I too will be trying a Tessar just for fun. Maybe a Meritar too.

Most if not all lenses provide circles in the bokeh when shot wide open, but only the king Trioplan does it best. You'll notice the others have varying amounts of the desired ring look. Oldhand's most recent example shows rather ordinary circles in comparison.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
bernhardas wrote:
@woodrim Frankly I can imagine the picture without the twig large on a wall!


Thank you, bernhardas, but I struggle to show just the bokeh without something reasonably sharp in the photo as a justification for the rest.


PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
AlexWicks wrote:
That's a lot of replies, thanks everyone!

Those projection lenses do look interesting, and I think I'll have to get a CZJ Tessar 50/2.8 if I see a good deal on one...

As for using a projection lens, the Diaplan or the Pentacon AV discussed earlier for example, how would I go about mounting one of these to a DSLR? I assume the flange focal distance of my EOS DSLR will stop me reaching infinity?


Infinity is no problem with the 100mm projection lenses - should even work on Nikon!
Best is to have the lens with the outer housing from the projector. THis way you have inner and outer helicoid, and only need some conversion at right distance to a mount ring.

My Pentacon AV/Diaplan 80mm was easy to adapt with a bit of hot-glue Smile


PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for the advice Very Happy

After a quick look on ebay, all I can find is projectors with 80mm lenses... any idea where I could find one with an 100mm lens?


PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
woodrim wrote:

I was recently at a plantation swamp with some beautiful colors. I so much wanted to use it for a Cyclop background, but no worthy subjects. I admit the subject in this was an excuse for the photo, but nevertheless I do like it...


Nice one. I love this style of painting. It is also one of the reasons why I buy old lenses. Modern lenses do not get such a photo.
I also noticed that Primotar is able to achieve such pictures.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Following discussions on this topic I ordered a Tessar. Unfortunately version that I wanted (preset) is double price compared to other "newer" variants of Tessar. I hope its worth the money spent.

There is any lens with focal less than 50mm capable of this type of bokeh Question


PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
edri wrote:
Following discussions on this topic I ordered a Tessar. Unfortunately version that I wanted (preset) is double price compared to other "newer" variants of Tessar. I hope its worth the money spent.

There is any lens with focal less than 50mm capable of this type of bokeh Question


The problem with anything shorter than 50mm is the increased depth of field makes it harder to throw anything more than a few feet away out of focus enough to get the sparkling/bubbly boke' effect. The other thing is, the shorter or slower the lens, the smaller the "bubbles" are rendered. The longer and faster a lens is, the larger the bubbles are made (well distance to camera also changes the size - the farther away the highlight the larger the bubble seems to become).

Here's some examples from my Fujinon 2.2/55



PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
As Mos6502 says, it isn't impossible to get this bubble bokeh with short lenses, but it isn't easy and the shorter the focal length the smaller - all other things being equivalent.
Here is a sample from a Flektogon 4/20 lens.
Note that the lens was very close to the subject and the OOF highlights a long way behind it.
OH



PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
woodrim wrote:
AlexWicks: Tessars are plentiful and cheap. Trioplan 2.9/50 not quite as plentiful, but still not expensive. I chose the Altix version which may be a better version (hearsay) and in my opinion, gives a better ring bokeh. However, I too will be trying a Tessar just for fun. Maybe a Meritar too.

Most if not all lenses provide circles in the bokeh when shot wide open, but only the king Trioplan does it best. You'll notice the others have varying amounts of the desired ring look. Oldhand's most recent example shows rather ordinary circles in comparison.


The relative slowness and short focal length of the Tessars means fairly small bubbles compared with the Trioplan, unless you get it on extension tubes and do some close up work.
Longer lenses allow you to get more of the subject in focus, and bigger background blur simultaneously, hence the popularity of the 100mm Trioplan.


PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oldhand wrote:
As Mos6502 says, it isn't impossible to get this bubble bokeh with short lenses, but it isn't easy and the shorter the focal length the smaller - all other things being equivalent.
Here is a sample from a Flektogon 4/20 lens.
Note that the lens was very close to the subject and the OOF highlights a long way behind it.
OH



This is quite beautiful! Just "My style" if I may say so Thomas ... Wink


PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Basilisk wrote:
woodrim wrote:
AlexWicks: Tessars are plentiful and cheap. Trioplan 2.9/50 not quite as plentiful, but still not expensive. I chose the Altix version which may be a better version (hearsay) and in my opinion, gives a better ring bokeh. However, I too will be trying a Tessar just for fun. Maybe a Meritar too.

Most if not all lenses provide circles in the bokeh when shot wide open, but only the king Trioplan does it best. You'll notice the others have varying amounts of the desired ring look. Oldhand's most recent example shows rather ordinary circles in comparison.


The relative slowness and short focal length of the Tessars means fairly small bubbles compared with the Trioplan, unless you get it on extension tubes and do some close up work.
Longer lenses allow you to get more of the subject in focus, and bigger background blur simultaneously, hence the popularity of the 100mm Trioplan.


Well, the obvious unwillingness to pay the current Trioplan prices calls for some compromises, right? Wink

The Steinheil Cassarit 3.5/100mm at work:


The Steinheil Cassarit 2.8/50mm:


The Hermagis 80mm projection lens:


PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kds315* wrote:

Well, the obvious unwillingness to pay the current Trioplan prices calls for some compromises, right? Wink

The Hermagis 80mm projection lens:

I think most people will need to pay much more for a Hermagis 80mm projection lens than a common Trioplan 100. Wink
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