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f1.2 or f1.4 lenses with Helios-style bokeh?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:45 am    Post subject: f1.2 or f1.4 lenses with Helios-style bokeh? Reply with quote

Hi guys.
Any ideas for a super fast 50mm with a more defined bokeh like the Helios?
I don't really care about the swirliness, I'm mainly wanting the harder edges in the bokeh.
Examples: http://bit.ly/1Fo8ODI, http://bit.ly/1uUxb8M, http://bit.ly/1FobaSU, http://bit.ly/1rduNKR, http://bit.ly/11tzwvu and http://bit.ly/1HEQdoK.

The Helios 77 (50mm f1.Cool is the closest I found so far, but i would like f1.4 or faster. Ideally 5D adaptable but I'D consider ones just for the A7s.
I've had the Heios 40-2, but it was too heavy, and I also don't love the bokeh on my OM 55mm f1.2.

Thanks!


PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hm..if fast what comes to my mind possibly Canon LTM 1.2/50 (?):
http://www.antiquecameras.net/canon50mmf12ltm.html
http://www.flickr.com/search/groups/?q=bokeh&w=1117967%40N20&m=pool
the f0.95 maybe even more so: http://www.paulmarbrook.com/sony-a7-canon-50mm-f0-95-dream-lens/

Pen-F Zuiko 1.4/40: http://www.flickr.com/photos/patrickjoust/5150019222
the Pen-F Zuiko 1.8/38 has more crazy, distinct bokeh, but it's only f1.8 and both not 50s..


PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Olympus pen f 42/1.2
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1326108/2#12678526

The obvious choices:
The Helios 40, which is a clone of the CZJ Biotar 75/1.5, the Helios 44, which is a clone of the CZJ Biotar 58/2.

The Meopta Meostigmat 1.4/70 Is also based off the CZJ Biotar 75/1.5, some pics here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/tags/meoptameostigmat7014/


Quote:
I don't really care about the swirliness, I'm mainly wanting the harder edges in the bokeh.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1261347/0

http://forum.mflenses.com/strange-bokeh-lenses-t30915
http://forum.mflenses.com/which-lens-do-you-like-for-the-bokeh-t13339


PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys.
I ordered a Helios 77M-4 (50mm f1.Cool, although I'm still not sure if it was a good choice.

I'm so damn tempted to get another Helios 40 but the reason I sold it is that I never took it to shoots since it's so damn heavy (and because I already have a samyang 85 in the bag)
I may end up getting the Zeiss 75mm f1.5, but the price is way over my budget, and there's very little info about it online which doesn't make it easier to decide on buying it. I couldn't even find out its exact weight, just that it's around 450-650g.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biotar 75/1.5: there is 3 versions which is why there is multiple weights.
http://www.pbase.com/image/92519049
http://forum.mflenses.com/biotar-75mm-f1-5-slim-1951-t51413.html
http://spiral-m42.blogspot.ca/2011/05/carl-zeiss-jena-biotar-75mm-f15-m42-2nd.html

Helios 40: 885g
http://www.photozone.de/pentax/149-helios-40-2-85mm-f15-m42-to-pentax-review--test-report


Last edited by Lightshow on Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:47 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:
Biotar 75/1.5: there is 3 versions which is why there is multiple weights.
http://www.pbase.com/image/92519049
http://forum.mflenses.com/biotar-75mm-f1-5-slim-1951-t51413.html

Helios 40: 885g
http://www.photozone.de/pentax/149-helios-40-2-85mm-f15-m42-to-pentax-review--test-report


Awesome, thanks!
Does anyone know what the weight of the Cyclop is?
I found mixed info online. Some say 450g, some say 650g, etc.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nitsan wrote:
Lightshow wrote:
Biotar 75/1.5: there is 3 versions which is why there is multiple weights.
http://www.pbase.com/image/92519049
http://forum.mflenses.com/biotar-75mm-f1-5-slim-1951-t51413.html

Helios 40: 885g
http://www.photozone.de/pentax/149-helios-40-2-85mm-f15-m42-to-pentax-review--test-report


Awesome, thanks!
Does anyone know what the weight of the Cyclop is?
I found mixed info online. Some say 450g, some say 650g, etc.

Again, there are a few versions of this lens(some can't be mounted to an SLR due to protruding part), plus no aperture blades which reduces it's usefulness to me.
http://forum.mflenses.com/optik-85mm-1-5-m42-cyclop-h3t-1-t44550.html

As to the weight, this thread seems reliable.
https://www.flickr.com/groups/helios_40-2/discuss/72157624040639320/

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cyclop-85mm-1-5-f1-5-analog-of-Helios-40-2-and-Zeiss-Biotar-75mm-m42-/281485456068


PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:

Again, there are a few versions of this lens(some can't be mounted to an SLR due to protruding part), plus no aperture blades which reduces it's usefulness to me.


Cool thanks.
I agree about the aperture but I don't want to carry a 1kg lens.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want a light lens that has similar rendering, then my previous post...
Quote:
The Meopta Meostigmat 1.4/70 Is also based off the CZJ Biotar 75/1.5, some pics here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/tags/meoptameostigmat7014/

Is what you're looking for, again, no iris, just wide open.
The horse shot sold me on it.
http://forum.mflenses.com/meopta-meostigmat-1-4-70-on-ff-and-nex-via-vnex-t55218


PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:
If you want a light lens that has similar rendering, then my previous post...
Quote:
The Meopta Meostigmat 1.4/70 Is also based off the CZJ Biotar 75/1.5, some pics here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/tags/meoptameostigmat7014/

Is what you're looking for, again, no iris, just wide open.
The horse shot sold me on it.
http://forum.mflenses.com/meopta-meostigmat-1-4-70-on-ff-and-nex-via-vnex-t55218


Thanks! Unfortunately it's not really the image I'm looking for. The Helios renders the bokeh a bit differently and has a lot less CA.

I'm wondering if I should just buy the Helios and just deal with the extra weight. :/
Does anyone know which version of the Helios/Cyclop 85mm has the easiest-moving focus ring?


PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nitsan wrote:
Lightshow wrote:
If you want a light lens that has similar rendering, then my previous post...
Quote:
The Meopta Meostigmat 1.4/70 Is also based off the CZJ Biotar 75/1.5, some pics here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/tags/meoptameostigmat7014/

Is what you're looking for, again, no iris, just wide open.
The horse shot sold me on it.
http://forum.mflenses.com/meopta-meostigmat-1-4-70-on-ff-and-nex-via-vnex-t55218


Thanks! Unfortunately it's not really the image I'm looking for. The Helios renders the bokeh a bit differently and has a lot less CA.

I'm wondering if I should just buy the Helios and just deal with the extra weight. :/
Does anyone know which version of the Helios/Cyclop 85mm has the easiest-moving focus ring?


Best would be, to read the complete Meostigmat - Thread to get an Idea, what this small lens can do for you.

http://forum.mflenses.com/meopta-meostigmat-1-4-70-on-ff-and-nex-via-vnex-t55218,highlight,%2Bmeopta.html


PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hinnerker wrote:
Best would be, to read the complete Meostigmat - Thread to get an Idea, what this small lens can do for you.

http://forum.mflenses.com/meopta-meostigmat-1-4-70-on-ff-and-nex-via-vnex-t55218,highlight,%2Bmeopta.html


Thanks, but I don't really like the images coming from this lens.
I'm not saying it's bad, maybe a great lens for some people, but it's not what I'm looking for.
I looked at all the images in that thread.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Hard to please" I guess, as there are not many options left .... lightweight and fast and longer focal length (85mm)
are quite contradictory requirements in terms of designing a lens.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kds315* wrote:
"Hard to please" I guess, as there are not many options left .... lightweight and fast and longer focal length (85mm)
are quite contradictory requirements in terms of designing a lens.


hehe, yes, true.

I just bought a Cyclop on ebay, I hope I will like it more than my old 40-2.
I have the Samyang 85 for when I need a more lightweight one, but I wanted the Helios/Cyclop for the special bokeh it gives.
I anyways consider it more of a "special use" lens, since not all backgrounds look good with it, IMO.


PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats. Mine sits around unused, as I have the Helios 40-2 too, but nowadays
I prefer projection lenses... Wink