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Ray Parkhurst
Joined: 04 Jul 2011 Posts: 497 Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:10 am Post subject: Want to buy Helios 44M 58/2...Advice? |
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Ray Parkhurst wrote:
I am interested in testing the Helios 44M 58/2 lens but am new to Helios and am wondering if anyone has advice on which vintage is best, any issues I should look out for, etc. I see many of them available on eBay for reasonable cost but don't know which to buy. Assistance would be appreciated so I don't make too big a mistake...Ray |
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Paul A
Joined: 20 Jun 2012 Posts: 39 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:32 am Post subject: |
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Paul A wrote:
there is a "Helios" thread here at mf lenses that includes the 44.
i am real new to Eastern European lenses and recently bought two (i did not know to choose one) 44 m42
one is 44-2 and one is 44M-4
the 44-2 is more work (you have to manually open and close the aperture with a separate ring...so there are three rings on it -a ring to select aperture, a ring to close/open the blades [helps with focusing lens wide open] to the selected aperture settings of the first ring and a focus ring). i can not really see any difference IQ-wise between the two but i am using a m4/3 so i have a 2X crop.
Last edited by Paul A on Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Aanything
Joined: 27 Aug 2011 Posts: 2201 Location: Piacenza, Italy
Expire: 2014-05-30
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:14 am Post subject: Re: Want to buy Helios 44M 58/2...Advice? |
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Aanything wrote:
Ray Parkhurst wrote: |
I am interested in testing the Helios 44M 58/2 lens but am new to Helios and am wondering if anyone has advice on which vintage is best, any issues I should look out for, etc. I see many of them available on eBay for reasonable cost but don't know which to buy. Assistance would be appreciated so I don't make too big a mistake...Ray |
I doubt you could do any big mistake as long as you get it cheap.
I have had many different helios 44's, from m39 versions to the latest multi-coated ones, and I must say that, in my experience (which is however quite limited), individual copy variation (or lens condition) is more relevant than the differences in models and eras.
That said, if you want a 44M - so a relatively recent version - you should go for 44-M7: the higher the number after the M in the name, the better the resolution (on paper, I never noticed big differences in use, but again, being old and often mistreated objects, condition may play a role here).
Personally I love the 44-2, and older ('60's) models are said to have better build quality and thus less QC issues, but really, you can't go much wrong with an helios44. _________________ C&C and editing of my pics are always welcome
Samples from my lenses
My gear
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Langstrum
Joined: 16 Feb 2014 Posts: 351
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:40 am Post subject: Re: Want to buy Helios 44M 58/2...Advice? |
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Langstrum wrote:
Aanything wrote: |
Ray Parkhurst wrote: |
I am interested in testing the Helios 44M 58/2 lens but am new to Helios and am wondering if anyone has advice on which vintage is best, any issues I should look out for, etc. I see many of them available on eBay for reasonable cost but don't know which to buy. Assistance would be appreciated so I don't make too big a mistake...Ray |
I doubt you could do any big mistake as long as you get it cheap.
I have had many different helios 44's, from m39 versions to the latest multi-coated ones, and I must say that, in my experience (which is however quite limited), individual copy variation (or lens condition) is more relevant than the differences in models and eras.
That said, if you want a 44M - so a relatively recent version - you should go for 44-M7: the higher the number after the M in the name, the better the resolution (on paper, I never noticed big differences in use, but again, being old and often mistreated objects, condition may play a role here).
Personally I love the 44-2, and older ('60's) models are said to have better build quality and thus less QC issues, but really, you can't go much wrong with an helios44. |
+1
It depends on your need to choose which version is most suitable to you. Remember that the 44-2 and 44-3 will have the best swirly effect, while 44, 44M, or 44M-7 almost don't create that effect at all. From 44M-4 to 44M-7, the resolution goes up, but be careful when you buy 44M-7 because they can switch the name plate to increase the price. With Helios 44, if you can get the 13 blades version, it will be great for the bokeh. Some early version is better in term of flare resistance and sharpness. But in general, get whatever you can and enjoy it if it's cheap, then you can decide to find the others or not. _________________
Camera: Sony A7 mark III, A6300
AF Lenses:
Canon EF 50/1.8; EF 200/2.8 L, EF 200/1.8 L, EF 300/4 L Sony E mount SEL 50/1.8 OSS, SEL 16/2.8 Fuji X mount XF 35/1.4 R
MF Lenses: Peleng MC 8/3.5, 17/2.8 Samyang 14/T3.1, 35/T1.5, TS 24/3.5 ED, 85/T1.5, Polar 85/1.4 Auto Revuenon 28/2.8; MC 50/1.4 Vega11U 50/2.8 Carl Zeiss Tessar 50/2.8 (exakta mount) Auto Chinon 50/1.9 Zenitar ME1 50/1.7 Sears Auto Sears 55/1.4; Sears 135/2.8 Auto Yashinon DX 50/1.4; Tomioka 50/1.2 SMC Pentax 50/1.7; 50/1.4 Canon FD 50/1.4 S.S.C; 55/1.2 S.S.C; FD 50/1.2 L; FD 85/1.2 L; 85/1.2 S.S.C Aspherical; FD 80-200/4 L 300/2.8 S.S.C Fluorite FD 300/2.8 L FD 200/1.8 LCosina-S 50/1.2 Helios Helios 44 Chrome f/22, 44-2, 44-3, 44M-4, 44M-7 (58/2), Helios-40 85/1.5 Jupiter Jupiter-9 85/2; Jupiter-37A 135/3.5; Jupiter-21M 200/4 Nikon Ai 105/2.5 Tairs-3S 300/4.5
Voigtlander 15/4.5 Aspherical; Ultron 35/1.7
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!Karen
Joined: 20 Jul 2013 Posts: 837 Location: Belgium Baby
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:10 am Post subject: |
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!Karen wrote:
All my helios 44 lenses have very stiff focus ring
Maybe that's my bad luck...or something to watch out for _________________ FLICKR PHOTOSTREAM |
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nurkov
Joined: 21 Feb 2013 Posts: 711 Location: United Kingdom
Expire: 2014-03-09
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:07 am Post subject: |
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nurkov wrote:
I have two helios lenses and both focus rings are fine _________________ http://www.flickr.com/photos/34787419@N08/
Minolta and Canon user |
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Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Posts: 6009 Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:38 am Post subject: |
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Oldhand wrote:
Helios 44-2 and 44M here.
Both are excellent.
44M has the better coatings as far as I can see in my results and by looking at the lens.
Some say the Helios 44-2's from certain factories are better but I am not so sure of that.
OH |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
44-2 for me. It may not have the coatings of the later versions but the front element is well recessed so flare is minimal (except when
facing the sun) and I think the build quality is much better. It's a preset lens, so on a modern auto camera you can just set the aperture
at f16 and forget it, and adjust the preset ring to whatever depth of field and bokeh you wish. _________________ Peter - Moderator |
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Ray Parkhurst
Joined: 04 Jul 2011 Posts: 497 Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Ray Parkhurst wrote:
Holy cow, great responses, but so many differences between versions. Perhaps I should have stated what I wanted the lens for to narrow the choices...
I do coin photography, so am looking for a version that is optimized for macro work. I believe this is the 44M, correct? For coins, I want best sharpness, and I have no interest in bokeh as any OOF areas get cropped. I am indeed looking for good color and depth presentation, which is why I am interested in trying this lens. Flare is not an issue in my coin photography setups. The lens will be bellows mounted so will already have some extension, and target magnification is 0.7:1...1.2:1. Having the lens element near the front is better for lighting so recessed front elements are not good for me. |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
Ray Parkhurst wrote: |
Holy cow, great responses, but so many differences between versions. Perhaps I should have stated what I wanted the lens for to narrow the choices...
I do coin photography, so am looking for a version that is optimized for macro work. |
I use a scanner! _________________ Peter - Moderator |
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Ray Parkhurst
Joined: 04 Jul 2011 Posts: 497 Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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Ray Parkhurst wrote:
peterqd wrote: |
Ray Parkhurst wrote: |
Holy cow, great responses, but so many differences between versions. Perhaps I should have stated what I wanted the lens for to narrow the choices...
I do coin photography, so am looking for a version that is optimized for macro work. |
I use a scanner! |
Yeah, lots of folks do, but scanners don't light the coin the way I want. |
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Gerald
Joined: 25 Mar 2014 Posts: 1196 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Gerald wrote:
Ray Parkhurst wrote: |
I do coin photography, so am looking for a version that is optimized for macro work. I believe this is the 44M, correct? |
Helios optimized for macro? I would be surprised to know that there is such kind of animal. As the Helios 44 is a double Gauss lens, it should perform reasonably well at 1:1, but certainly not better than a lens optimized for that magnification.
I think the M in 44M means that the mount is M42. _________________ If raindrops were perfect lenses, the rainbow did not exist. |
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Ray Parkhurst
Joined: 04 Jul 2011 Posts: 497 Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Ray Parkhurst wrote:
Gerald wrote: |
Ray Parkhurst wrote: |
I do coin photography, so am looking for a version that is optimized for macro work. I believe this is the 44M, correct? |
Helios optimized for macro? I would be surprised to know that there is such kind of animal. As the Helios 44 is a double Gauss lens, it should perform reasonably well at 1:1, but certainly not better than a lens optimized for that magnification.
I think the M in 44M means that the mount is M42. |
Ahh, I read in a couple places that the 44M was intended for macro. Perhaps this is a lost cause... |
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Gerald
Joined: 25 Mar 2014 Posts: 1196 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Gerald wrote:
Ray Parkhurst wrote: |
Gerald wrote: |
Ray Parkhurst wrote: |
I do coin photography, so am looking for a version that is optimized for macro work. I believe this is the 44M, correct? |
Helios optimized for macro? I would be surprised to know that there is such kind of animal. As the Helios 44 is a double Gauss lens, it should perform reasonably well at 1:1, but certainly not better than a lens optimized for that magnification.
I think the M in 44M means that the mount is M42. |
Ahh, I read in a couple places that the 44M was intended for macro. Perhaps this is a lost cause... |
I found this in the Spanish edition of Wikipedia:
El MC Helios-44-3M es una version macro del MC Helios-44-3 fabricado en MMZ en 1992.
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios-44
Translation: The MC Helios-44-3M is a macro version of the MC Helios-44-3 manufactured by MMZ in 1992. _________________ If raindrops were perfect lenses, the rainbow did not exist. |
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Drack
Joined: 27 Feb 2011 Posts: 735 Location: Lithuania
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Drack wrote:
If your planning on using the lens for macro, don`t get a Helios, get an Industar-61L/Z f2/50mm. The lens has amazing sharpness, it was somewhat intended for part macro, part everyday use, so you get best of both worlds. In my experience, Helios lenses are superb, despite their age, type or model. I, however, recommend getting a copy which has a body design like this: http://www.southerncape.co.za/recreation/photography/lenses/helios/mc_helios-44m-7_58mm_f2.php , not because others other designs are worse, it`s just that I find these to be more comfortable to use. Many models come with this design: 44m-4,44m,44m-5/6/7 etc.
But again, I`d go for the more expensive Industar lens. _________________ I have many great Russian cameras and lenses for sale on my ebay account, please check it out: http://www.ebay.com/sch/piksius/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3686
Forum members are olbigaded to a discount
DSLR: Pentax K-x + 18-55 kit + f4 35-75mm
Mirrorless : Samsung NX-20 + 18-55 kit
M42 lense: Helios 44-2 , Helios 44-3, Helios 44m , Tair 3 Phs , Mir-1B , Jupiter-37a, Industar 50-2, Industar 61 L/Z, Tlear-N .
Currently using:
Minolta X-700 + MD f1.7/50mm + Rokkor-X f2.8/28mm + MD f3.5 35-70mm MACRO
Zorki-4K + J-8 f2/50mm + J-12 f2.8/35mm
EXA 1A + CZJ Tessar f2.8/50mm |
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skida
Joined: 02 Mar 2012 Posts: 1826 Location: North East England
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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skida wrote:
Gerald wrote: |
I think the M in 44M means that the mount is M42. |
As far as I know, and from experience, the "M" denotes auto-aperture, ie. there is a pusher pin that closes the diaphragm when the shutter button is pushed. _________________ Lots of 35mm Film Cameras
Lots of Lenses
New Vlog on Youtube called "The Olduns Shot"
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBHCOHaIrcYr7s3is1EcqxQ |
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Lee|Ratters
Joined: 23 Sep 2014 Posts: 78 Location: Bristol | UK
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:59 am Post subject: |
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Lee|Ratters wrote:
Could you not get a Helios of some description for everyday use & pick up a set of tubes for [almost] macro work? I picked up a set of two [13mm & 21mm] C/Y tubes for £11
I recently bought a 44-2 & nice & sharp but I'm not keen on the look of it...... Loses contrast shooting into light too but that's not much of a concern if you are aware & work around it. I wouldn't mind a 44M-2 or -3 but they seem thin on the ground at bargain prices compared to the 44M |
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Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Posts: 6009 Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Oldhand wrote:
It is remarkable how prices for Helios 44-2 and 44M have appreciated in the last twelve months.
From what I can see they have roughly doubled in price.
I wish the stock market had performed so well.
OH |
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 7785 Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
Oldhand wrote: |
It is remarkable how prices for Helios 44-2 and 44M have appreciated in the last twelve months.
From what I can see they have roughly doubled in price.
I wish the stock market had performed so well.
OH |
I've been trying to sell some and haven't had one enquiery, perhaps the UK is flooded with them? I certainly don't bother buying them any more, and I've seen two for sale in charity shops this week, but they are attached to old Zenits and I really don't want any more of them! _________________ LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3669 Location: Calgary
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
skida wrote: |
Gerald wrote: |
I think the M in 44M means that the mount is M42. |
As far as I know, and from experience, the "M" denotes auto-aperture, ie. there is a pusher pin that closes the diaphragm when the shutter button is pushed. |
Then what does the K mean in a 44K4 if not K mount? _________________ A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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Langstrum
Joined: 16 Feb 2014 Posts: 351
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Langstrum wrote:
Lightshow wrote: |
skida wrote: |
Gerald wrote: |
I think the M in 44M means that the mount is M42. |
As far as I know, and from experience, the "M" denotes auto-aperture, ie. there is a pusher pin that closes the diaphragm when the shutter button is pushed. |
Then what does the K mean in a 44K4 if not K mount? |
K is definitely K mount, M may stand for M42 mount, but it can't explain why Helios 44, 44-2, 44-3, 44-7 without M still have M42 mount. And what is the other difference between Helios 44 and 44M, if not the A/M switch?
It makes me confused. _________________
Camera: Sony A7 mark III, A6300
AF Lenses:
Canon EF 50/1.8; EF 200/2.8 L, EF 200/1.8 L, EF 300/4 L Sony E mount SEL 50/1.8 OSS, SEL 16/2.8 Fuji X mount XF 35/1.4 R
MF Lenses: Peleng MC 8/3.5, 17/2.8 Samyang 14/T3.1, 35/T1.5, TS 24/3.5 ED, 85/T1.5, Polar 85/1.4 Auto Revuenon 28/2.8; MC 50/1.4 Vega11U 50/2.8 Carl Zeiss Tessar 50/2.8 (exakta mount) Auto Chinon 50/1.9 Zenitar ME1 50/1.7 Sears Auto Sears 55/1.4; Sears 135/2.8 Auto Yashinon DX 50/1.4; Tomioka 50/1.2 SMC Pentax 50/1.7; 50/1.4 Canon FD 50/1.4 S.S.C; 55/1.2 S.S.C; FD 50/1.2 L; FD 85/1.2 L; 85/1.2 S.S.C Aspherical; FD 80-200/4 L 300/2.8 S.S.C Fluorite FD 300/2.8 L FD 200/1.8 LCosina-S 50/1.2 Helios Helios 44 Chrome f/22, 44-2, 44-3, 44M-4, 44M-7 (58/2), Helios-40 85/1.5 Jupiter Jupiter-9 85/2; Jupiter-37A 135/3.5; Jupiter-21M 200/4 Nikon Ai 105/2.5 Tairs-3S 300/4.5
Voigtlander 15/4.5 Aspherical; Ultron 35/1.7
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3669 Location: Calgary
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
I'm sure that was their plan all along, confusion. _________________ A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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Drack
Joined: 27 Feb 2011 Posts: 735 Location: Lithuania
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Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Drack wrote:
K stands for Pentax-K mount. The Zenit -A ( Automat) camera line had the K mount and for that they made the Helios-44K-4 lens. Tried 2 of them. Got awesome results from them. _________________ I have many great Russian cameras and lenses for sale on my ebay account, please check it out: http://www.ebay.com/sch/piksius/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3686
Forum members are olbigaded to a discount
DSLR: Pentax K-x + 18-55 kit + f4 35-75mm
Mirrorless : Samsung NX-20 + 18-55 kit
M42 lense: Helios 44-2 , Helios 44-3, Helios 44m , Tair 3 Phs , Mir-1B , Jupiter-37a, Industar 50-2, Industar 61 L/Z, Tlear-N .
Currently using:
Minolta X-700 + MD f1.7/50mm + Rokkor-X f2.8/28mm + MD f3.5 35-70mm MACRO
Zorki-4K + J-8 f2/50mm + J-12 f2.8/35mm
EXA 1A + CZJ Tessar f2.8/50mm |
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eugene1979
Joined: 05 Nov 2014 Posts: 25
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Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:27 am Post subject: |
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eugene1979 wrote:
On the APS-C camera the Helios-44M becomes a portrait prime lens with the pretty good maximum aperture of F/2. The lens is sharp enough at F/2 at the center of the frame but soft at the edges of the APS-C frame even at F/2.8. Overall the lens is not so sharp as the modern autofocus lenses with similar focal lengths and apertures. However it's good enough for short and medium distance shots at maximum apertures due to the narrow depth of field even with the APS-C sensors. As for the swirling background at F/2-2.8 you have to decide by yourself if you need to blame the lens for it or not. Anyway the price is so low and the build quality OF THE EXPORT VERSION is excellent that... why not try it?..
My review of my copy of the lens with shots at different apertures:
http://aflenses.ru/reviews/a-subjective-look-at-helios-44m-258-m42-fujifilm-x-pro1 |
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woodrim
Joined: 14 Jan 2010 Posts: 4060 Location: Charleston
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Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:48 am Post subject: |
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woodrim wrote:
peterqd wrote: |
Ray Parkhurst wrote: |
Holy cow, great responses, but so many differences between versions. Perhaps I should have stated what I wanted the lens for to narrow the choices...
I do coin photography, so am looking for a version that is optimized for macro work. |
I use a scanner! |
I pretty much agree with peter. I have had 44 eight blades, 44 13-blades, 44-2, 44-3, and 44M-7. While the M-7 was rated higher in resolution, I couldn't tell from results. In fact, my perception has been that the 44-2 is the best of them. I have sold the M-7 mainly because it doesn't feel good - cheap build quality. I'll sell the 44-3 too when I get around to it. Some 44-3 do not seat properly on an adapter; mine does - I had to look for right serial number range. I'll keep the 44-2 and do prefer the preset type. The 44 with eight blades does not seem to be as good as the 44-2, but it also falls way short of infinity and may be dirty inside. The 44 with 13-blades is not yet in hand, but I do look forward to trying it out.
They can all be had for relatively cheap. _________________ Regards,
Woodrim |
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