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Question wich 200mm'ish walk around lens to get?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kjell: After going back and reading your post again, I've concluded that nothing I have would meet those requirements. Of the several 200mm lenses I have, there is fast, short focus, sharp, small, light, and inexpensive, but not a single lens I have is all of that. I can't speak about Canon or Nikon because I haven't had those. However, among the ones I have, I can offer the following...

Vivitar 3/200 Series 1: Fast and my sharpest, very short minimum focus and excellent build quality. Heavy and not real cheap.

Vivitar 3.5/200 Komine; Good lens, but doesn't perform on Series 1 level.

Sankyô Kôki Komura 3.5/200 Preset: Excellent colors; good sharpness; great bokeh; good build quality; heavy, long minimum focus, and not as easy to focus. Prices vary greatly. Many bladed diaphragm.

Meyer Optik Görlitz Orestegor 4/200: Very good sharpness and bokeh; decent build, sexy name, long minimum focus, inexpensive. Many bladed diaphragm.

Minolta MD Rokkor 4/200: 1st MD version. My most recent purchase. Light, good build, sharp from f/4, Minolta colors. Long focus, prices vary.

Kashimura Dianon 4.5/200: Good sharpness, bokeh, and light, but long. Long minimum focus. Rare, but fairly inexpensive. This lens is probably better than I have given credit. Many bladed diaphragm.

Topcon 5.6/200 RE Auto-Topcor: Light, small, well built, a tad sharper at wide open than Rokkor and minimal CA. Has a reputation of being the least impressive among the highly rated Topcors, but in my experience it is better than that. Long focus. Inexpensive. If it were only faster...


PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodrim wrote:
Kjell: After going back and reading your post again, I've concluded that nothing I have would meet those requirements. Of the several 200mm lenses I have, there is fast, short focus, sharp, small, light, and inexpensive, but not a single lens I have is all of that. I can't speak about Canon or Nikon because I haven't had those. However, among the ones I have, I can offer the following...

Vivitar 3/200 Series 1: Fast and my sharpest, very short minimum focus and excellent build quality. Heavy and not real cheap.

Vivitar 3.5/200 Komine; Good lens, but doesn't perform on Series 1 level.

Sankyô Kôki Komura 3.5/200 Preset: Excellent colors; good sharpness; great bokeh; good build quality; heavy, long minimum focus, and not as easy to focus. Prices vary greatly. Many bladed diaphragm.

Meyer Optik Görlitz Orestegor 4/200: Very good sharpness and bokeh; decent build, sexy name, long minimum focus, inexpensive. Many bladed diaphragm.

Minolta MD Rokkor 4/200: 1st MD version. My most recent purchase. Light, good build, sharp from f/4, Minolta colors. Long focus, prices vary.

Kashimura Dianon 4.5/200: Good sharpness, bokeh, and light, but long. Long minimum focus. Rare, but fairly inexpensive. This lens is probably better than I have given credit. Many bladed diaphragm.

Topcon 5.6/200 RE Auto-Topcor: Light, small, well built, a tad sharper at wide open than Rokkor and minimal CA. Has a reputation of being the least impressive among the highly rated Topcors, but in my experience it is better than that. Long focus. Inexpensive. If it were only faster...


If we are taking about f4 and slower, I think we should also include any zooms that have similar size and or as good IQ.
Like the FDn 80-200/4L which has picked up some popularity thanks to [url=" Phillip Reeve"]http://www.flickr.com/photos/birnenbaumgarten/sets/72157629349634442/[/url]

I just recieved my Topcor R 200/4 & 300/5.6 lenses and am going to try them out.
I really like my Topcor R 135/3.5 as a walk around lens, no sharpness issues.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:


I just recieved my Topcor R 200/4 & 300/5.6 lenses and am going to try them out.
I really like my Topcor R 135/3.5 as a walk around lens, no sharpness issues.


I'll be interested in seeing the Topcor 5.6/300 shots, and also hearing your opinion on it. I have one and have not fallen in love with it.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodrim wrote:
Lightshow wrote:


I just received my Topcor R 200/4 & 300/5.6 lenses and am going to try them out.
I really like my Topcor R 135/3.5 as a walk around lens, no sharpness issues.


I'll be interested in seeing the Topcor 5.6/300 shots, and also hearing your opinion on it. I have one and have not fallen in love with it.

My Topcor R 135/3.5 is my favorite 135mm lens, it's razor sharp wide open, so it will be what I compare the 200 & 300 to.
I was shooting handheld and I was a bit shaky today, but I could tell it wasn't up to the same level as the R 135/3.5 wide open, just how much? I will have to get back to you on that, and it was getting too dark to stop it down much. It felt like it was sharp, but didn't have the resolution the 135 has, oh well, I'll have to revisit the 300.
The R 200/4 was what I was hoping for, immediately I could tell it was as good as the 135, which is to say that it is very sharp from wide open, it will hard not to want it if I need 200mm.

Every time I use my better Topcor lenses, I always get a little sad, Topcon walked away from the camera business, and they were easily one of the top lens makers in the business, as good as Leica and Zeiss.
I really would have liked to have seen what they could do with multi-coated lenses and a modern bayonet mount like Minolta's MC/MD.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:
woodrim wrote:
Lightshow wrote:


I just received my Topcor R 200/4 & 300/5.6 lenses and am going to try them out.
I really like my Topcor R 135/3.5 as a walk around lens, no sharpness issues.


I'll be interested in seeing the Topcor 5.6/300 shots, and also hearing your opinion on it. I have one and have not fallen in love with it.

My Topcor R 135/3.5 is my favorite 135mm lens, it's razor sharp wide open, so it will be what I compare the 200 & 300 to.
I was shooting handheld and I was a bit shaky today, but I could tell it wasn't up to the same level as the R 135/3.5 wide open, just how much? I will have to get back to you on that, and it was getting too dark to stop it down much. It felt like it was sharp, but didn't have the resolution the 135 has, oh well, I'll have to revisit the 300.
The R 200/4 was what I was hoping for, immediately I could tell it was as good as the 135, which is to say that it is very sharp from wide open, it will hard not to want it if I need 200mm.

Every time I use my better Topcor lenses, I always get a little sad, Topcon walked away from the camera business, and they were easily one of the top lens makers in the business, as good as Leica and Zeiss.
I really would have liked to have seen what they could do with multi-coated lenses and a modern bayonet mount like Minolta's MC/MD.

Hi, James. How is your Topcor 85? It will be nice to see your photos before I try my own copy.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't used it a bunch, other than to check it after getting it back from the CLA.
Yeah, it's typical Topcor, very sharp wide open, and some CA, much like the RE 58/1.4.
I will get some pics up soon.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lightshow wrote:
I haven't used it a bunch, other than to check it after getting it back from the CLA.
Yeah, it's typical Topcor, very sharp wide open, and some CA, much like the RE 58/1.4.
I will get some pics up soon.

I see. Look forward to your photos with the 85.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jupiter 21M may be good for you, not very heavy and sharp wide open, the IQ is about 80-90% of my Canon EF 200/2.8 L. The only limitation is the f4, so normally I can't use this lens right before the sunset. Other choices are FD 80-200 f4L if you don't mind zoom lens. This lens actually changed my impression with zoom lenses.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

luisalegria wrote:
Am I the only fool that thinks a heavy long FL lens is a good thing ?
Steadier to handhold and dampens vibration.


No, I am with you on that one. I had the Rokkor 250/5.6 mirror lens but sold it to fund another lens, reason beeing it became to unstable to
shoot handheld.

Thanks Woodrim, I did have the vivitar komine 200/4 and found it a bit lack luster. Seems to me I should try the topcor.

And how about these 80 - 200mm zooms. If I understand it correct they become bigger but minimum focus distance is shorter.
The canon FL is suggested. Anyone tested the vario-sonnar?


PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vivitar Series 1 200/3 is a good, compact choice.

Texsport


PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the Yashica ML C 4/200mm is a nice compact tele (113,5mm long, 58mm filtersize and 535g)


PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 from my Topcor R 135/3.5 all on A7r (all uncorrected)


Full size bee shot. https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3905/14885717968_393b184481_o.jpg


Similar shots from the Topcor R 200/4 all on A7r (all uncorrected)
I may have missed focus on this shot a bit, has a some CA.



PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

luisalegria wrote:
Am I the only fool that thinks a heavy long FL lens is a good thing ?
Steadier to handhold and dampens vibration.


I also agree, my heavy Jupiter 21 is very steady in my somewhat shaky hands. It is a pleasure to use actually.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the Suggestions. The Topcor 200/5.6 has the looks! The Jupiter 21 is Heavyyyy!

I see the point with weight, or rather momentum. Right now I have three contenders in my mind
- Canon Fd 200/4, Not N-version and not internal focussing.
- Super-Takumar 150/4, Just because its on our local auction site
-Vario-sonnar 80 - 200mm F4, Seems to always get good reviews.

Are there 180mm alternatives??

Kjell


PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Topcon RE Auto Topcor 5.6/200. Stunning lens, sharp as a laser, supremely well built.


I read in another post about the 28mm hexanon that you held the 200mm Hexanon as one of the best. Does it still hold?
I really like hexanons and has got that one, and the 200/4. Still they couldn't hold up to the cannon fdn200/4 wide open, to be added
- on the m43 G5 camera. Stopped down a little the hexanons got better and the cannon worse!! Still on the G5.

I suppose I have to do some testing too see what works on the X-T1.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Topcon RE Auto Topcor 5.6/200. Stunning lens, sharp as a laser, supremely well built.


5.6 oder 4.0 ?, because i found only the 4.0 with my search.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want something compact , I can recommend you the Super Takumar 150/4 . It fits good even small cameras and focusing is a joy.
I have also the Rokkor MD 200/4 version 2 which is quite light . I think less than 500g. It performs well too though focusing is stiff compared to the Takumar. I think that for those long tele lenses the easiness of focusing is an important criterium of choice.

About the Jupiter 21 , it is a very good lens indeed ...certainly made with the same steel used for soviet armoured vehicules.
Almost 1kg ! My Tak 3,5 which is big , weights "only "750g. Focusing is also very long with this soviet beast.

Most of those lenses require some CA correction in PP.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you want something long, heavy and 180mm ?
Try a Sonnar 180mm f2.8 or better a Jupiter-6 180mm f2.8... Very Happy


Else, Soligor 200 f3.5 or Orestegor 200


PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodrim wrote:
Lightshow wrote:


I just recieved my Topcor R 200/4 & 300/5.6 lenses and am going to try them out.
I really like my Topcor R 135/3.5 as a walk around lens, no sharpness issues.


I'll be interested in seeing the Topcor 5.6/300 shots, and also hearing your opinion on it. I have one and have not fallen in love with it.

I shot it again today, handheld and full support, it's nowhere near as good as my other Topcor lenses, stopping down didn't improve anything. Sad I'll up the best picture.

calvin83 wrote:
Lightshow wrote:
I haven't used it a bunch, other than to check it after getting it back from the CLA.
Yeah, it's typical Topcor, very sharp wide open, and some CA, much like the RE 58/1.4.
I will get some pics up soon.

I see. Look forward to your photos with the 85.

I also brought the RE 85 with me, easily my best 85, I really should use it more. Pics to come.


PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Belcanto wrote:
Thanks for all the Suggestions.

Are there 180mm alternatives??

Kjell



How about the CV APO-Lanthar 180.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about Mamiya Sekor C 210mm F4 (Medium Format Lens). It is sharper than my other Mamiya Sekor Auto 200mm F3.5 (M42) on DX sensor but the focusing is better on M42 lens.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

another small, cheap and very good option: the Soligor 3.5/180 (you can also find it as Hanimex)

http://forum.mflenses.com/soligorkomine-180-3-5-t7998.html


PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wolfhansen wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Topcon RE Auto Topcor 5.6/200. Stunning lens, sharp as a laser, supremely well built.


5.6 oder 4.0 ?, because i found only the 4.0 with my search.



Ian's was a Topcor "RE" 200/5.6 which was known to be really nice.
Lightshow's was a Topcor "R" 200/4 which was quite scarce.
The one you found was probably a Topcor "UV" 200/4 which was mostly useless on digital. Sad


Back to the topic, currently my favourite 200ish lens is the Sigma APO Macro 180/5.6. Very good if you are ok with the plastic construction.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tao wrote:
wolfhansen wrote:
iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Topcon RE Auto Topcor 5.6/200. Stunning lens, sharp as a laser, supremely well built.


5.6 oder 4.0 ?, because i found only the 4.0 with my search.



Ian's was a Topcor "RE" 200/5.6 which was known to be really nice.
Lightshow's was a Topcor "R" 200/4 which was quite scarce.
The one you found was probably a Topcor "UV" 200/4 which was mostly useless on digital. Sad


Back to the topic, currently my favourite 200ish lens is the Sigma APO Macro 180/5.6. Very good if you are ok with the plastic construction.


I agree, that was probably the UV model - stay away. An RE Auto Topcor 5.6/200 can be had cheap if you're patient enough. I'd love to try the R 4/200, but don't see them show up.


PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

texsport wrote:
Vivitar Series 1 200/3 is a good, compact choice.

Texsport


I reported on this but didn't recommend it since it didn't meet the UP requirements as I understood them. I wouldn't consider it a compact due to its rather large diameter and weight. However, nothing I've used ha equaled it in performance.

Here's a wide open from last evening in setting sun. NEX-5N and Series 1 3/200: