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walter g
Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 2463
Location: NC, USA
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 Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:14 pm Post subject: Schneider Kreuznach Componon 1:4/50 mm Enlarging Lens |
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walter g wrote:
It was listed as a 16 blade. I tried to do a little research on this lens but I'm getting conflicting info.
What mount does it have. I was thinking M39 but I'm not sure. Any info on this lens would be helpful.
Thanks Walter
I guess it would be hard to go wrong for a $1 plus shipping.
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Minolfan
Joined: 30 Dec 2008
Posts: 3437
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Minolfan wrote:
Mine is younger (11,435,901) and smaller I think, with 24mm thread. Fitting on Durst enlarger. M24 to M39 should exist. I adapted a bodycap. |
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walter g
Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 2463
Location: NC, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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walter g wrote:
| Minolfan wrote: |
| Mine is younger (11,435,901) and smaller I think, with 24mm thread. Fitting on Durst enlarger. M24 to M39 should exist. I adapted a bodycap. |
I was afraid of that.I will try a homemade adapter to see how I like the lens before I buy an adapter.
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Minolta MC W SI 2.5/28, MD 2.8/28, MC W SG 3.5/28, MC Celtic 3.5/28, MC W HG 2.8/35, MD Celtic 2.8/35, QE 4/35, Rokkor X 2/45, MC Rokkor X PG 1.4/50, MC Rokkor X PG 1.7/50, MD Rokkor X 1.7/50, MD 2/50, MC Rokkor PF 1.7/55, MC Rokkor PF 1.9/55, Auto Tele Rokkor PG 2.8/135, MC Tele Rokkor QD 3.5/135, TC 4/135, MC Celtic 4/200, MC Tele Rokkor PE 4.5/200
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scsambrook
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 2167
Location: Glasgow Scotland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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scsambrook wrote:
It's a good lens, well worth getting an adapter. And for a $ - well, you can't go wrong (as long as it's clean, of course!).
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Equipment: Pentax DSLR for casual shooting, Lumix G1 and Fuji XE-1 for playing with old lenses, and Leica M8 because I still like the optical rangefinder system. |
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walter g
Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 2463
Location: NC, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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walter g wrote:
| scsambrook wrote: |
| It's a good lens, well worth getting an adapter. And for a $ - well, you can't go wrong (as long as it's clean, of course!). |
For a dollar I thought I'd take the chance. The way the pic is taken I can't tell if it has oil on the blades or not.
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Minolfan
Joined: 30 Dec 2008
Posts: 3437
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:09 am Post subject: |
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Minolfan wrote:
Manual aperture, so a bit of oil doesn't effect the working, like with auto M42 can happen |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:58 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I have this lens - serial number 11 000 102, it is C-mount so I used a c-mount to M39 adapter to mount it on my Russian M39 bellows then an M39-EOS adapter to connect the bellows to my EOS.
I think this lens is only okay, it's not in the same class as my Schneider Componon-S or Rodenstock Rodagon-S, about the same IQ as my Tessar 50mm enlarger lens, probably also a Tessar formula as it is a 4-element lens. The Compnpn-S and Rodagon-S are both 6-elements I think.
You did well to get it for a dollar, a nice intro to the world of using enlarger lenses, you won't get infinity with it, but it is suited for closeups and macro work, it will need a hood fitted, the filter thread is small, I had to make a hood out of cardboard as even a small one for a Zeiss Ikon folder was too big.
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RioRico
Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 1120
Location: California or Guatemala or somewhere
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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RioRico wrote:
I have other 50mm EL's but not this lens;
AND I haven't any EL shorter than 105mm with me on my current journey;
AND I haven't tried a trick that I heard of after I started my journey;
BUT to better exploit a cheap EL, you might try this trick: Reverse it.
This presents new mounting challenges. I'll work those out after I return home in a few weeks. But a highly-regarded Pentax macrographer swears that reversed EL's give noticeably better performance.
Also, while EL's shorter than 80mm won't reach infinity focus on any of my bellows mounted on my Pentax K20D, they CAN be mounted on a focusing helicoid (ah but the cost!), or on macro tubes, and/or on a PVC-pipe slide-focus kludge. Such may give infinity or any other focus distance desired. I have an Industar-58 75/3.5 mounted for 1m+ fixed focus, for damn sharp headshot portraits. (The lens body is a rather ominous black horn, so I mostly get nervous expressions, heh heh.)
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themoleman342
Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 2190
Location: East Coast (CT), U.S.A.
Expire: 2013-01-24
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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themoleman342 wrote:
It's a 25mm screw mount and a six element design. Componars are the 4 element ones. Mine stays in a darkroom where it does an awesome job. |
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walter g
Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 2463
Location: NC, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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walter g wrote:
| RioRico wrote: |
I have other 50mm EL's but not this lens;
AND I haven't any EL shorter than 105mm with me on my current journey;
AND I haven't tried a trick that I heard of after I started my journey;
BUT to better exploit a cheap EL, you might try this trick: Reverse it.
This presents new mounting challenges. I'll work those out after I return home in a few weeks. But a highly-regarded Pentax macrographer swears that reversed EL's give noticeably better performance.
Also, while EL's shorter than 80mm won't reach infinity focus on any of my bellows mounted on my Pentax K20D, they CAN be mounted on a focusing helicoid (ah but the cost!), or on macro tubes, and/or on a PVC-pipe slide-focus kludge. Such may give infinity or any other focus distance desired. I have an Industar-58 75/3.5 mounted for 1m+ fixed focus, for damn sharp headshot portraits. (The lens body is a rather ominous black horn, so I mostly get nervous expressions, heh heh.) |
Thank You.
I would love to have it on a helicoid, but that's not in my price range. I was planning on trying PVC pipe.
Or maybe a junk lens and take the optics out of it.
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Panasonic G5,Nikon J1,Pentax Q10,Sony Nex 6
Minolta MC W SI 2.5/28, MD 2.8/28, MC W SG 3.5/28, MC Celtic 3.5/28, MC W HG 2.8/35, MD Celtic 2.8/35, QE 4/35, Rokkor X 2/45, MC Rokkor X PG 1.4/50, MC Rokkor X PG 1.7/50, MD Rokkor X 1.7/50, MD 2/50, MC Rokkor PF 1.7/55, MC Rokkor PF 1.9/55, Auto Tele Rokkor PG 2.8/135, MC Tele Rokkor QD 3.5/135, TC 4/135, MC Celtic 4/200, MC Tele Rokkor PE 4.5/200
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walter g
Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 2463
Location: NC, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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walter g wrote:
| themoleman342 wrote: |
| It's a 25mm screw mount and a six element design. Componars are the 4 element ones. Mine stays in a darkroom where it does an awesome job. |
Thank you.
I did some research on adapters. It appears I need the M25 to M39 adapter which is the Shneider # 00 adapter.
Real world pricing didsn't match there suggested list. Plastic adapter $23,
Metal adapter $50. 
I can't wait to try it. I might just do the body cap modified for now.
Thanks everyone for your help.
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Minolta MC W SI 2.5/28, MD 2.8/28, MC W SG 3.5/28, MC Celtic 3.5/28, MC W HG 2.8/35, MD Celtic 2.8/35, QE 4/35, Rokkor X 2/45, MC Rokkor X PG 1.4/50, MC Rokkor X PG 1.7/50, MD Rokkor X 1.7/50, MD 2/50, MC Rokkor PF 1.7/55, MC Rokkor PF 1.9/55, Auto Tele Rokkor PG 2.8/135, MC Tele Rokkor QD 3.5/135, TC 4/135, MC Celtic 4/200, MC Tele Rokkor PE 4.5/200
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Nikon Nikkor 4/20, O Auto 2/35, S Auto 1.4/50..... Miranda Auto 2.8/28, Auto 2.8/35, Auto 1.4/50, Auto EC 1.4/50, Auto 1.8/50, Auto EC 1.8/50,Auto 1.9/50, Auto 3.5/135
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indianadinos
Joined: 06 Jul 2008
Posts: 1310
Location: Toulouse, France
Expire: 2011-12-05
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| Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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indianadinos wrote:
| walter g wrote: |
Or maybe a junk lens and take the optics out of it. |
Try with a non-working Helios-44, they are really cheap ...
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walter g
Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 2463
Location: NC, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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walter g wrote:
I got it yesterday and it's really in near mint condition. Mount is M25, and it came with a M25 retaining ring.  Filter thread appears to be 28 or 29mm. The battery is going out in my caliper. So I can't tell for sure.
For test purposes I mounted a M42 adapter then used a 7MM extension tube, I cut a disk out of cardboard and mounted the lens in it, and taped it to the extension tube.
I didn't paint the back of the cardboard black. So that could be part of the problem.
I can't see any defects in the lens. I was very careful that I had no light leaks.
So what happened. Please C&C. Be honest they look like gaarbage to me. No PP. Just resized. I know I missed focus slightly.
Crop of same shot. Marigold.
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walter g
Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 2463
Location: NC, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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walter g wrote:
Same flower shot with Minolta 50 f2 lens shot at f4.
Marigold
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Minolta MC W SI 2.5/28, MD 2.8/28, MC W SG 3.5/28, MC Celtic 3.5/28, MC W HG 2.8/35, MD Celtic 2.8/35, QE 4/35, Rokkor X 2/45, MC Rokkor X PG 1.4/50, MC Rokkor X PG 1.7/50, MD Rokkor X 1.7/50, MD 2/50, MC Rokkor PF 1.7/55, MC Rokkor PF 1.9/55, Auto Tele Rokkor PG 2.8/135, MC Tele Rokkor QD 3.5/135, TC 4/135, MC Celtic 4/200, MC Tele Rokkor PE 4.5/200
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 10471
Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
look like flare, may be some light leak
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walter g
Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 2463
Location: NC, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 3:56 am Post subject: |
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walter g wrote:
I will try another test tomorrow.I will double check for light leaks.
I have a M42 body cap on order to mount it in.Hopefully they will ship it quickly. I just didn't want to wait that long to test the lens.
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Main cameras
Panasonic G5,Nikon J1,Pentax Q10,Sony Nex 6
Minolta MC W SI 2.5/28, MD 2.8/28, MC W SG 3.5/28, MC Celtic 3.5/28, MC W HG 2.8/35, MD Celtic 2.8/35, QE 4/35, Rokkor X 2/45, MC Rokkor X PG 1.4/50, MC Rokkor X PG 1.7/50, MD Rokkor X 1.7/50, MD 2/50, MC Rokkor PF 1.7/55, MC Rokkor PF 1.9/55, Auto Tele Rokkor PG 2.8/135, MC Tele Rokkor QD 3.5/135, TC 4/135, MC Celtic 4/200, MC Tele Rokkor PE 4.5/200
MD 28-70 f3.5-4.8, MD Macro 35-70 f3.5, Md 70-210 f4, MD Rokkor X 75-200 f4.5, MD 100-200 f5.6
Nikon Nikkor 4/20, O Auto 2/35, S Auto 1.4/50..... Miranda Auto 2.8/28, Auto 2.8/35, Auto 1.4/50, Auto EC 1.4/50, Auto 1.8/50, Auto EC 1.8/50,Auto 1.9/50, Auto 3.5/135
Various Soligor,Sun,Fujita,Komura,Spitatone, etc. Lenses
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walter g
Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 2463
Location: NC, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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walter g wrote:
Tried again today this time I used 2 layers of painters tape with overlapped seams. Same poor quality result. 
There really shouldn't be any light leak this way. I'm going to wait until the body cap comes to try again.
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Panasonic G5,Nikon J1,Pentax Q10,Sony Nex 6
Minolta MC W SI 2.5/28, MD 2.8/28, MC W SG 3.5/28, MC Celtic 3.5/28, MC W HG 2.8/35, MD Celtic 2.8/35, QE 4/35, Rokkor X 2/45, MC Rokkor X PG 1.4/50, MC Rokkor X PG 1.7/50, MD Rokkor X 1.7/50, MD 2/50, MC Rokkor PF 1.7/55, MC Rokkor PF 1.9/55, Auto Tele Rokkor PG 2.8/135, MC Tele Rokkor QD 3.5/135, TC 4/135, MC Celtic 4/200, MC Tele Rokkor PE 4.5/200
MD 28-70 f3.5-4.8, MD Macro 35-70 f3.5, Md 70-210 f4, MD Rokkor X 75-200 f4.5, MD 100-200 f5.6
Nikon Nikkor 4/20, O Auto 2/35, S Auto 1.4/50..... Miranda Auto 2.8/28, Auto 2.8/35, Auto 1.4/50, Auto EC 1.4/50, Auto 1.8/50, Auto EC 1.8/50,Auto 1.9/50, Auto 3.5/135
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mo
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 8982
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:29 am Post subject: |
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mo wrote:
Did you do any contrast adjustment?..PP etc
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:46 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Did ou use a hood?
My Componon-S lacks contrast and glares like hell unless I use a hood, it's very very sharp though.
These shots are not good examples, but they were taken with my Componon-S (M39) mounted on a M42 extension tube using the mount ring from a broken Zenit-3 glued on the end as an M39-M42 converter, it is crude but works and allows focussing as well.
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16:9
Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 302
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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16:9 wrote:
Results and samples vary: a Componon 50/4 can be over 70 years old. All the metal bodied ones had relatively ineffectual coating and are low-contrast renderers even by the standard of enlarger lenses. Nonetheless, even the five-element models resolve well at f4, and the six-element [V5] is even better. A healthy one performs unusually consistently across a 46mm image circle.
There are five versions:
The silver metal-bodied [V1] was produced from c.1955 until 1959 and had the scalloped 15-blade aperture.
Between 1959-1961 Schneider produced a version designated '027' with a properly circular aperture. We call this [V2].
After 1961, the Componon 50/4 was designated 'CPN 50' and Schneider reverted to the scalloped aperture. Brass and steel bodies still have chrome finishing. [V3]
In 1966, Schneider began to finish CPN 50 in black, and I think it's likely they improved the coating. This is [V4].
In 1974, the new plastic-bodied [V5] appears, which has improved coatings compared to [V3] and seems to have been upgraded to a 6/4 DG.
There was no Componon-S. Further details on www.deltalenses.com
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Last edited by 16:9 on Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:17 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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simple.joy
Joined: 30 May 2022
Posts: 437
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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simple.joy wrote:
Thanks a lot for the overview! There was a Componon-S 50/4 though... even if it likely just was a prototype as I've been told:
It's already in the deltalenses archive: https://deltalenses.com/product/schneider-componon-s-50-4-2/
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 3754
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
| 16:9 wrote: |
| Componon 50/4 ... are all excellent 6/4 designs that resolve well even at f4. |
Interesting ... I always had assumed that ...
1) the Componar lenses were Triplets,
2) the Componon lenses were Tessar types (given their f4 speed),
3) and the Componon-S only were double gauss ...
Seems I was wrong 
S
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16:9
Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 302
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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16:9 wrote:
Join the club, Steve - I can't even relay information fom my own website, which seems to have outgrown my ability to comprehend it. Fortunately simple.joy is here to remind us what I've forgotten! Thanks for the correction.
Not every Componon was six-element, but the majority were. The Componon 50/4 was initially a five-element design that was upgraded to six elements for [V5]. The original Componon 105/5.6 had four elements.
But generally,
Componar=Triplet
Comparon=Tessar
Componon=Gauss
The last Componon 50/4 is the sharpest, but the prettiest rendering is the [V2] - if you can live with the low contrast. The bijou M25-mount Componons are jewels compared to the ugly-bokeh plastic fantastic [V5].
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Last edited by 16:9 on Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:16 pm; edited 6 times in total |
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16:9
Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 302
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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16:9 wrote:
Nice.
Although Schneider didn't kill off the Componon 50/4 in 1973 when revising the range to -S spec (it continued in production for at least another five years), these small-run Componon-S 50/4 seem to be part of Schneider weighing up whether to continue the f4, or focus on development of 'smarter' faster, plastic-bodied models. Leitz faced a similar decision as they made prototypes of Focotar-3 50/4.5.
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 3754
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
| 16:9 wrote: |
But generally,
Componar=Triplet
Comparon=Tessar
Componon=Gauss
[V5]. |
OK that's it - I knew I had forgotten something: The Comparons
Actually the only Schneider enlargement lens I ever used was the APO Componon 4/45mm. It had quite a bit of vignetting wide open and at f5.6, but at f8 and f11 was extremely sharp - quite important since in the early 1990s I ususally took landscapes using the high res Kodak Technical Pan TP2415 film.
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