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Rokkor 58mm f/1.2 question
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:18 pm    Post subject: Rokkor 58mm f/1.2 question Reply with quote

That Rokkor lens was made for quite a few years and underwent changes along the way.


I own a late copy of that lens Snr: 2770060, No "PG" label. I't a great lens no questions about that, but I've been wondering what I'm missing out on compared with an older, radioactive copy. If anyone have both new and old versions and have shot them side by side I'd like to hear if there is any difference. Or even better, can post some samples.

Cheers!


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know you're lucky.You've got a pretty rare copy of this wonderful lens ,(7 elements,five groups),with the newer MD coating and without a radioactive (thoriated) glass element inside.I look forward to some sample pictures. Smile


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I didn't know about the coating! And in that case it was luck, since I didn't look for a specific version, just grabbed the first one Very Happy So far I've only taken a few shots on film


Velvia 100


Velvia 100


Portra 160


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you post a pic of the lens? I didn't think there was an MD version of the 58 1.2. I am aware of multiple MC Rokkor variations but thought it was replaced by the 50 1.2 with the introduction of the MD lenses in 1978, nor was I aware of a different optical formula for this lens.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here you go. It is a MC ROKKOR, it's just missing the PG.



PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

March, 1973
- MC Rokkor-X PG 58/1,2 [7/5] (55mm) 0,6m f/16 70,8x54mm 478g

Up-dated fast standard. Where Minolta moved away from 55, 58, even 53 mm focal lengths in standard lenses with this series, this particular lens was already perfect, so nothing was changed. While the other standard lenses of the series never lost their two-letter optical codes, this one is sometimes found without its -PG (its because this lens was actually sold into the MD era).
Excerpts from RED Baileys Minolta Collection web site


This lens was still being sold in 1974 therefore we can suppose that the new MD coating was applied on the last ones sold,
presumebly on those without "PG".... but i have no proof of that...


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like blotafton is going to have to buy an older version to compare. Twisted Evil


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mir wrote:
March, 1973
- MC Rokkor-X PG 58/1,2 [7/5] (55mm) 0,6m f/16 70,8x54mm 478g

Up-dated fast standard. Where Minolta moved away from 55, 58, even 53 mm focal lengths in standard lenses with this series, this particular lens was already perfect, so nothing was changed. While the other standard lenses of the series never lost their two-letter optical codes, this one is sometimes found without its -PG (its because this lens was actually sold into the MD era).
Excerpts from RED Baileys Minolta Collection web site


This lens was still being sold in 1974 therefore we can suppose that the new MD coating was applied on the last ones sold,
presumebly on those without "PG".... but i have no proof of that...



A reasonable conclusion.



Lightshow wrote:
Looks like blotafton is going to have to buy an older version to compare. Twisted Evil


Now that's mean!
Though that thought has crossed my mind about 234 times already Very Happy


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have both versions, the PG version has more green coating (SN:25*****), the non-PG (SN:27*****) has more clear/very slight purple/yellow coating.
PG ver. almost seems more "coated"....
Both are the rubber focusing ring versions


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

radissimo77 wrote:
I have both versions, the PG version has more green coating (SN:25*****), the non-PG (SN:27*****) has more clear/very slight purple/yellow coating.
PG ver. almost seems more "coated"....
Both are the rubber focusing ring versions


Does the older one contain thorium, or is it only the metal barrel ones that do?

I welcome a comparison nonetheless!


PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From FredMiranda:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/833131

One other notable difference is the presence of thorium (radioactive) glass in the first few runs. Lenses with serial numbers 200xxxx, 250xxxx, 255xxxx, and at least some of the 256xxxx have this. Lenses from 257xxxx through 27xxxxx series do not.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

radissimo77 wrote:
I have both versions, the PG version has more green coating (SN:25*****), the non-PG (SN:27*****) has more clear/very slight purple/yellow coating.
PG ver. almost seems more "coated"....
Both are the rubber focusing ring versions


+1, had to look at my copy when I got home. It's also a 27xxxxxx serial without the PG, with the orange ROKKOR-X branding. It has the same purple/yellowish coloration in the coating.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are the last versions, your is for USA market with -X suffix.
I was just surprised that coating is way more visible on my older -PG version.
Both are non-radioactive ones.
I will test them for flare/contrast soon.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenetik wrote:
radissimo77 wrote:
I have both versions, the PG version has more green coating (SN:25*****), the non-PG (SN:27*****) has more clear/very slight purple/yellow coating.
PG ver. almost seems more "coated"....
Both are the rubber focusing ring versions


+1, had to look at my copy when I got home. It's also a 27xxxxxx serial without the PG, with the orange ROKKOR-X branding. It has the same purple/yellowish coloration in the coating.


In that case there is some variation, mine has the mostly yellow and green coating.



radissimo77 wrote:
These are the last versions, your is for USA market with -X suffix.
I was just surprised that coating is way more visible on my older -PG version.
Both are non-radioactive ones.
I will test them for flare/contrast soon.


I'm looking forward to that!


PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
I have this note (hosted in MS OneNote) regarding that lens.
I copied it from one website or forum, but some update of Onenote lost the source of it, sorry!

Quote:
~

Here is a brief manufacture history:

Version 1 (1968-1969) Serial# Range 200-257
58mm MC Rokkor-PG F/1.2 (Introduced on September 16th 1968

Radioactive Coatings
Metal Focus Ring
Silver Aperture Ring
Flathead Screws


Version 2 (1969-1973) Serial# Range 258-259
58mm MC Rokkor-PG F/1.2

Improved (Non-Radioactive Coatings)
Rubber Focus Ring
Black Aperture Ring
Philips Screws


Version 3 (1973-1978) Serial# Range 271-277
58mm MC Rokkor-X (in orange) PG F/1.2 (Designated Rokkor-X only in the USA & Canada)

In the rest of the world it was labeled Rokkor (with white lettering)
It debuted in March 1973 (Other Rokkor-X lenses arrived earlier in 1972)
Improved Coatings from Version 2



Which vintage is the best? That is hard to say. Good samples have been found from all groups.
There is evidence that the older radioactive, metal focus ring copies are the best.
Some fans who have purchased a dozen or more samples really prefer the older copies.
There is that sample variation factor though.
My copy is the old style with the so called coveted serial number that is in the 250XXXX range.
Your mileage may vary but in my book the 58mm/1.2 Rokkor definitely deserve its underground cult status (its becoming more well known now though.)

It really is one of the finest lenses ever made...


PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So we can go as far as guessing that the final version of coating is the " slight purple/yellow coating" that looked weaker than other versions?

In that case it's odd that mine (277****) has yellow-orange/ green colors, with just a little bit of purple in there.