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List of classic triplets and derivatives (Tessar, Sonnar...)
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:39 pm    Post subject: List of classic triplets and derivatives (Tessar, Sonnar...) Reply with quote

I hope the list below, with information about triplet lenses its and derivatives, are useful for people interested in these classic types of photographic lenses.

Excerpt from the 1979 Spanish edition of the original Photographic Optics, by Arthur Cox.

Enjoy it!


PS: Arthur Cox was a great connoisseur, but of course I can not guarantee absolute accuracy of all information presented in his book.






















Last edited by Gerald on Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:04 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems to be quite a few errors. In the Ross section, he lists the Rosstar 4.5/75 as a 4/3 tessar,it isn't, it's a triplet. The Xpres he lists as a 4/3 Tessar too, which is wrong, some are 5/3 with a cemented rear triplet, some are dialytes, some are double gauss, Xpres was just a trade name.

The Wray section is also wrong, he lists Supars as being both tessars and triplets, they are all triplets, and he lists the Lustrar as being both dialytes and tessars; Lustrar, like Xpres was a trade name and covered other designs too, I have a double gauss Lustrar, for instance.

In the Wollensak section he lists the Raptar as a tessar, again wrong as Raptar was also a trade name and covered several designs, I have a dialyte type Raptar and there are double gauss Raptars as well.

In the Kodak section he lists the Proy Ektanonas as triplets, this is wrong, some are dialytes. He also lists the Ektars as tessars, whereas some are Heliars.

The diagram T52 for the Isco S-Projar 2.5/90 is completely wrong, I have one of those lenses and have dismantled it, it is nothing like that diagram, it is an almost symmetrical 6 element design.

In the Aldis section he lists the Anastigmats as being triplets, well,most are, but some are Uno types with a cemented pair in front of the diaphragm and a single element behind.

Just the errors I spotted after a quick scan. Doesn't inspire confidence. Sad


PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice document . Thank you.
The Zeiss Novar is absent.
There are articles explaining that the Tessar is not a derivative of a triplet.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Novar was not a Carl Zeiss lens, it was a Zeiss Ikon lens, made ether in the Hensoldt factory or bought in from outside makers, Rodenstock are said to be the company who made many of them.

The Tessar is developed from the Unar and Protar, it is the back half of a Protar and the front half of a Unar.

Marco Cavina covers the Protar, Unar, Tessar progression here:

http://www.marcocavina.com/articoli_fotografici/Zeiss_cute_DFR_DDR_lenses/00_pag_English.htm



The 4/4 Dialyte/Aplanat type isn't derived from the triplet either. Goerz pioneered this type with the Syntor and Celor followed by the Dogmar and Artar. Steinheil were only a few years behind with their Unofokal. The Cooke Aviar which is also a 4/4 of this type was derived from the triplet though, during ww1 the British captured an example of the Tessar the Germans were using to make aerial maps and gave it to TT&H to copy. TT&H replied tat they couldn't copy it due to the glass types used not being available and instead submitted a superior design using available crown and flint glass. Almost all the early Kodak Anastigmats were 4/4 dialyte types too, they perform very differently to a triplet.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have two cameras equiped with a Novar : an Ikonta 4.5x6 and an Ikoflex TLR.
I have been using the Ikoflex many, many years ago in B&W.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the Novar is used on most Zeiss Ikon cameras in the lower price range. I have a Nettar 6x6 with a Novar 6.3/75. Stopped down to f11 the results are indistinguishable from those from my Ikonta 6x6 with a Tessar 4.5/75.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
The diagram T52 for the Isco S-Projar 2.5/90 is completely wrong, I have one of those lenses and have dismantled it, it is nothing like that diagram, it is an almost symmetrical 6 element design.

I have an all-metal barrel Isco CINELUX-AV 90mm f/2.5 MC lens, which seems to have an optical construction exactly equal to T52, with 5 air-spaced lenses. I did not disassemble my lens, but I counted 10 reflections. I also estimated that the ratio of the diameters and radii of curvature of the frontal and rear lenses are compatible with the diagram T52.
I bought this lens in 1985, and it seems obvious to me now that the Isco at some point started to use the name CINELUX to replace Projar. What I know is that my lens appears to be exaclty equal the Projar of the diagram T52. All indications are that Isco had changed its name to CINELUX a few years before I bought it. Apparently the name Projar coexisted with CINELUX for a while, so Projar started to be used to designate the amateur line, while CINELUX was reserved for the professional line. As far as I know, today the name Projar no longer exists, but CINELUX continues.

I will not argue with you the other "mistakes" you detected because I never had those lenses, but I got the impression that you was misled by the loose naming system that lens manufacturers often employ. It is common for manufacturers to change completely a lens design, but the name remains the same. It is the case of the Nikkor 105mm F2.5 that was based on the Sonnar 180mm F2.8 (diagram T24), but was redesigned later to have an optical formula similar to the Pentacon 135mm F2.8.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How old is the book?,perhaps by "dating" the info it will give a better understanding of what era of lenses he was trying to catalogue at his time of life.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mo wrote:
How old is the book?,perhaps by "dating" the info it will give a better understanding of what era of lenses he was trying to catalogue at his time of life.


I have just edited and added that information to my post.


PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cassar and Zuiko 3.5/135 have similar optical construction. Rolling Eyes

Some lens have few versions and have different optical design. For example, the Quinon 2/50 exist in LTM and M39 but they have totally different optical construction(Sonnar vs double Gauss).


PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the sake of completeness I added the process and enlarging lenses, as listed in the book of Arthur Cox. Many of these lenses are Triplets or Tessars, so that the diagrams shown before apply here.

It is interesting to note that the Stenheil Cassar reappears here, but with a construction type Triplet (diagram T1) and ranges of FLs and apertures different from that shown in the first list. This suggests that indeed Cassar had many versions with varying optical formulas. Another possibility is simply that there is a typo in the first list, causing T1 to turn into T11.



PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will be a typo because every Cassar I've seen was a triplet.


PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just rescued the list and optical diagrams of triplets and derivatives that were lost when the forum had a technical problem a few years ago.


PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gerald wrote:
I've just rescued the list and optical diagrams of triplets and derivatives that were lost when the forum had a technical problem a few years ago.


Obrigado!!


PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kds315* wrote:
Gerald wrote:
I've just rescued the list and optical diagrams of triplets and derivatives that were lost when the forum had a technical problem a few years ago.


Obrigado!!


De nada! You're welcome!


PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like 1 Like 1 Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!