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Artistic lens, Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58/2 ??
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would any user buy an old Biotar, instead of a much more modern Helios ?
The flare is more interesting, warmer tones ! I much prefer the Helios !
For a Zeiss, I'd rather spend my money on a Pancolar 50 f2 ! Still has some nice swirlies, but sharper in the corners !


PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alaios wrote:
Thanks for the answers. I will drop these lenses to the sea then Smile Have not google it that much but did not find anything convincing


According to a test I read the 135 f2.8 DSB is a super sharp lens better than some famous lenses. You could just have a slight lack of contrast due to coating.


PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi littleearth,
which Helios version are you talking exactly?

Regards
Alex


PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please ignore my last post
I am getting so easily confused with manufactures, abbreviations and lenses versions... so I had to read all from scratch..
Which helios version should I go for?

Regards
Alex


PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are so many around I don't think it matters, you should be able to find a cheap one or a very cheap one if you're patient.
I won a Zenit and a 44-2 on the auction for £16 posted.


PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
I just understood by looking on the ebay that I had a zenit with that lens when I was at the school age... What memories... I need to dig out this camera... where the heck it can be?

Regards
Alex


PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
which 44-X should I prefer?


PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alaios wrote:
Hi,
which 44-X should I prefer?


Most users here would answer 44-2...
I would prefer 44-3 or 44-3M most. Smile


PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi alaios,
you are asking many questions about lenses . May I ask you which camera do you use.
For some lenses it makes a difference.
A Helios is a standard lens on FF and teleobjective on a micro4/3.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alaios wrote:
Hi,
which 44-X should I prefer?

The cheapest in good condition (no scratches, no major dust, no stuck aperture, no stiff focus, no fungus)!
Optical differences between the versions are often smaller than quality spreading.

Some people say the 44-3X series is the best, other say the 44-M7 is the sharpest, and so on.... I had several and yes there are differences but imho they are more or less neglitable. My 44-M7 had sharper edges than 44-2 but softer center, and the 44-2 had a nicer build imho etc.

I had many and finally kept only the 44-2 M42


PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 44-2 preset version is my favourite ! Great build quality, smooth bokeh and great tones and flare !
If you want a contrasty sharp lens go for the more modern 44M-7 !

I shoot mostly film with the Helios !

Helios 44-2 with extra oily blades and Fuji Superia expired in 2005 :





PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a nex-f3 and I am even happier to hear that people still shoot with film!!!


PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay I can't help you . I have A7 and micro 4/3. My helios are poor lenses with the A7 and very good teles with the Panas.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why you said that they are poor with A7?

Is a lens camera specific?


PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can speak only about my samples , a 44-2 and a 44 M6.
On A7 they are really poor in the corners ans borders ( sharpness).
They are subject to flare. The performance is bad with side light. Due to size of the sensor the problem is disturbing. I could not notice this problem with a smaller sensor ( G3) because it is cropped.
The last and the worst: many lenses have a gohsting issue with the A7. When stopped down, you can see a reflection of the aperture diaphragm on the image. It is certainly an interaction between the sensor and internal reflections in the lens when you face a source of light.
My 44m6 suffers strongly from this. I did not test the 44-2 in this situation.

Probably you will not have those problems with a NEX APS -C.
The 44 M6 is supposed to be sharper than the 44-2. In reallity , I would go for the last one because it is not that obvious in the center .


PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
one more questions.
what about the 44-4? I think that was the lens my old Zenit 122 had. I was thinking it might be fun to use exactly the same lens.

Alex


PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep pretty much.


PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there again.
After searching a bit more I have also found this lens

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/tags/domiron/interesting/

would you consider this one also as an artistic lens?

Regards
Alex


PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have 2 Helios lenses the 44 (£20) and the 44-2(£12).

I am a bokeh addict and was blown away when i found out about these lenses.


A shot with the 44 on a Nikon D600 without infinity glass

44 without infinity glass



44-2 with infinity glass, shooting into the sun


44-2 not sure on Fstop.

44-2 @f/2 under exposed


PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alaios wrote:
Hi there again.
After searching a bit more I have also found this lens

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/tags/domiron/interesting/

would you consider this one also as an artistic lens?

Regards
Alex

I would like one to find out how artistic it is but it is hard to come by, The helios would be the cheaper option.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is "infinity glass"?


PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi I keep googling a bit
and I also found a big collection of images from this guy

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.534546843265511.1073742080.478790495507813&type=3

can someone comment if he is photshoping like crazy? From me all these lenses would fall in the artistic category.

Regards
Alex


PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he might be talking about the normal adaptors for Nikon that have the glass element in so you can achieve infinity focus, you can remove the glass as it degrades image quality in most cases a use the lens for macro work.

alaois, that's the domiron another members has mentioned on a different thread, from what read about it today it has interesting qualities and from those pictures I would have to agree!! no idea regarding how much work would be done on the images though.


PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alaios wrote:
Hi there again.
After searching a bit more I have also found this lens

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/tags/domiron/interesting/

would you consider this one also as an artistic lens?

Regards
Alex


alaios wrote:
Hi I keep googling a bit
and I also found a big collection of images from this guy

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.534546843265511.1073742080.478790495507813&type=3

can someone comment if he is photshoping like crazy? From me all these lenses would fall in the artistic category.

Regards
Alex


No he's not photoshopping like crazy. You can't photoshop that bokeh stuff, or at least it would be extremly hard. It needs a little post processing (for example in Lightroom) to get anything out of it and I would say most sample on flickr have some slight PP like slight contrast boost, slight color saturation boost etc.. The Meyer Domiron 50/2 has even more funky in bokeh as the Helios 44 but is generally much more expensive. I have one since a few weels and it makes a lot of fun to use (I do highly prefer it over the Helios 44).

Here's a Domiron sample from last weekend with Sony A7 (FF), altered colors and cropped


Other lenses with funky/artsy bokeh are Meyer Trioplan 100/2.8, Helios 40-2 85/1.5, Jupiter-3 50/1.5, Fujian 35/1.7 for example.

Kram wrote:
What is "infinity glass"?

An element that extends flange distance so that you can adapt lenses with shoter flange distance to you camera and still reach infinity when focusing. For example M42 to Nikon adapters or Minolta MD to Sony A etc.
Basically they are 1.1x-1.3x-Teleconverters, made from crappy singlets in most cases.
I've never seen a good one.

memetph wrote:
I can speak only about my samples , a 44-2 and a 44 M6.
On A7 they are really poor in the corners ans borders ( sharpness).
They are subject to flare. The performance is bad with side light. Due to size of the sensor the problem is disturbing. I could not notice this problem with a smaller sensor ( G3) because it is cropped.
The last and the worst: many lenses have a gohsting issue with the A7. When stopped down, you can see a reflection of the aperture diaphragm on the image. It is certainly an interaction between the sensor and internal reflections in the lens when you face a source of light.
My 44m6 suffers strongly from this. I did not test the 44-2 in this situation.

Probably you will not have those problems with a NEX APS -C.
The 44 M6 is supposed to be sharper than the 44-2. In reallity , I would go for the last one because it is not that obvious in the center .

+1
Many of my 50mm lenses became somewhat poorer on A7 at wide apertures, even some with very good reputation like Minolta MD 50/1.4. FF-sensors are somewhat more demanding than 1.5x crop and 2x crop, as they are not cropping the "sweet spot". I think Helios 44-2 looks best on 1.5x-1.6x crop like from NEX or most consumer DSLRs from Canon, Sony etc.
That's why I'm currently thinking about buying Sony A6000 as second body, for when I need larger DOF, for tele, or when I need to crop the sweet spot with some lenses.

Maybe the Helios 44-M7/M6 is better on A7. As said I noticed that my 44-M7 had much sharper corners already on 1.5x APS-C than the 44-2 while my 44-2 was slightly sharper in the center.
So for crop sensors I would recommend the 44-2, but for FF the M7 etc. might be the better choice


Last edited by ForenSeil on Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:38 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
I am also sharing with the community this link of the same facebook guy

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.534546843265511.1073742080.478790495507813&type=3

where lenses are sorted and more artistic lenses are there. I am not sure though about costs and availability.

Regards
Alex