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littleearth
Joined: 21 Dec 2011 Posts: 77 Location: PT
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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littleearth wrote:
Why would any user buy an old Biotar, instead of a much more modern Helios ?
The flare is more interesting, warmer tones ! I much prefer the Helios !
For a Zeiss, I'd rather spend my money on a Pancolar 50 f2 ! Still has some nice swirlies, but sharper in the corners ! |
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memetph
Joined: 01 Dec 2013 Posts: 942 Location: Poland
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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memetph wrote:
alaios wrote: |
Thanks for the answers. I will drop these lenses to the sea then Have not google it that much but did not find anything convincing |
According to a test I read the 135 f2.8 DSB is a super sharp lens better than some famous lenses. You could just have a slight lack of contrast due to coating. |
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014 Posts: 724
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Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:15 am Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
Hi littleearth,
which Helios version are you talking exactly?
Regards
Alex |
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014 Posts: 724
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Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:24 am Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
Please ignore my last post
I am getting so easily confused with manufactures, abbreviations and lenses versions... so I had to read all from scratch..
Which helios version should I go for?
Regards
Alex |
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cyrano
Joined: 15 Feb 2013 Posts: 855 Location: UK
Expire: 2016-12-30
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Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:24 am Post subject: |
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cyrano wrote:
There are so many around I don't think it matters, you should be able to find a cheap one or a very cheap one if you're patient.
I won a Zenit and a 44-2 on the auction for £16 posted. _________________ A whole bunch of stuff. |
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014 Posts: 724
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Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:56 am Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
Hi
I just understood by looking on the ebay that I had a zenit with that lens when I was at the school age... What memories... I need to dig out this camera... where the heck it can be?
Regards
Alex |
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014 Posts: 724
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Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:00 am Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
Hi,
which 44-X should I prefer? |
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vlousada
Joined: 11 Dec 2010 Posts: 345 Location: Portugal
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Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:16 am Post subject: |
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vlousada wrote:
alaios wrote: |
Hi,
which 44-X should I prefer? |
Most users here would answer 44-2...
I would prefer 44-3 or 44-3M most. _________________ Regards,
VITOR
-------
SELLING:
Please ask
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memetph
Joined: 01 Dec 2013 Posts: 942 Location: Poland
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Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:16 am Post subject: |
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memetph wrote:
Hi alaios,
you are asking many questions about lenses . May I ask you which camera do you use.
For some lenses it makes a difference.
A Helios is a standard lens on FF and teleobjective on a micro4/3. |
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ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.
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Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:26 am Post subject: |
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ForenSeil wrote:
alaios wrote: |
Hi,
which 44-X should I prefer? |
The cheapest in good condition (no scratches, no major dust, no stuck aperture, no stiff focus, no fungus)!
Optical differences between the versions are often smaller than quality spreading.
Some people say the 44-3X series is the best, other say the 44-M7 is the sharpest, and so on.... I had several and yes there are differences but imho they are more or less neglitable. My 44-M7 had sharper edges than 44-2 but softer center, and the 44-2 had a nicer build imho etc.
I had many and finally kept only the 44-2 M42 _________________ I'm not a collector, I'm a tester
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
(German language) |
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littleearth
Joined: 21 Dec 2011 Posts: 77 Location: PT
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Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:58 am Post subject: |
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littleearth wrote:
The 44-2 preset version is my favourite ! Great build quality, smooth bokeh and great tones and flare !
If you want a contrasty sharp lens go for the more modern 44M-7 !
I shoot mostly film with the Helios !
Helios 44-2 with extra oily blades and Fuji Superia expired in 2005 :
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014 Posts: 724
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Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
I have a nex-f3 and I am even happier to hear that people still shoot with film!!! |
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memetph
Joined: 01 Dec 2013 Posts: 942 Location: Poland
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Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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memetph wrote:
okay I can't help you . I have A7 and micro 4/3. My helios are poor lenses with the A7 and very good teles with the Panas. |
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014 Posts: 724
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Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
why you said that they are poor with A7?
Is a lens camera specific? |
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memetph
Joined: 01 Dec 2013 Posts: 942 Location: Poland
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Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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memetph wrote:
I can speak only about my samples , a 44-2 and a 44 M6.
On A7 they are really poor in the corners ans borders ( sharpness).
They are subject to flare. The performance is bad with side light. Due to size of the sensor the problem is disturbing. I could not notice this problem with a smaller sensor ( G3) because it is cropped.
The last and the worst: many lenses have a gohsting issue with the A7. When stopped down, you can see a reflection of the aperture diaphragm on the image. It is certainly an interaction between the sensor and internal reflections in the lens when you face a source of light.
My 44m6 suffers strongly from this. I did not test the 44-2 in this situation.
Probably you will not have those problems with a NEX APS -C.
The 44 M6 is supposed to be sharper than the 44-2. In reallity , I would go for the last one because it is not that obvious in the center . |
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014 Posts: 724
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Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:17 am Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
Hi
one more questions.
what about the 44-4? I think that was the lens my old Zenit 122 had. I was thinking it might be fun to use exactly the same lens.
Alex |
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tromboads
Joined: 29 May 2012 Posts: 1782 Location: Melbourne AU
Expire: 2015-10-01
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Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:01 am Post subject: |
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tromboads wrote:
yep pretty much. |
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014 Posts: 724
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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:34 am Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
Hi there again.
After searching a bit more I have also found this lens
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/tags/domiron/interesting/
would you consider this one also as an artistic lens?
Regards
Alex |
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Kabizm
Joined: 12 Mar 2014 Posts: 11 Location: Kent UK
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Kabizm wrote:
I have 2 Helios lenses the 44 (£20) and the 44-2(£12).
I am a bokeh addict and was blown away when i found out about these lenses.
A shot with the 44 on a Nikon D600 without infinity glass
44 without infinity glass
44-2 with infinity glass, shooting into the sun
44-2 not sure on Fstop.
44-2 @f/2 under exposed
_________________ D600,Helios 44 58/2,Helios 44-2 58/2, Pentacon 29mm 2.8,Super Tak 35mm 3.5 (broken) Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar Zebra 50mm 2.8, Super Tak 55mm F/2, Pentacon 135mm 2.8 Preset (Bokeh Monster) |
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mo
Joined: 27 Aug 2009 Posts: 8982 Location: Australia
Expire: 2016-07-30
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:31 am Post subject: |
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mo wrote:
I would like one to find out how artistic it is but it is hard to come by, The helios would be the cheaper option. _________________ Moira, Moderator
Fuji XE-1,Pentax K-01,Panasonic G1,Panasonic G5,Pentax MX
Ricoh Singlex TLS,KR-5,KR-5Super,XR-10
Lenses
Auto Rikenon's 55/1.4, 1.8, 2.8... 50/1.7 Takumar 2/58 Preset Takumar 2.8/105 Auto Takumar 2.2/55, 3.5/35 Super Takumar 1.8/55...Macro Takumar F4/50... CZJ Biotar ALU M42 2/58 CZJ Tessar ALU M42 2.8/50
CZJ DDR Flektogon Zebra M42 2.8/35 CZJ Pancolar M42 2/50 CZJ Pancolar Exakta 2/50
Auto Mamiya/Sekor 1.8/55 ...Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 2.8/50 Auto Mamiya/Sekor 200/3.5 Tamron SP500/8 Tamron SP350/5.6 Tamron SP90/2.5
Primoplan 1.9/58 Primagon 4.5/35 Telemegor 5.5/150 Angenieux 3.5/28 Angenieux 3,5/135 Y 2
Canon FL 58/1.2,Canon FL85/1.8,Canon FL 100/3.5,Canon SSC 2.8/100 ,Konica AR 100/2.8, Nikkor P 105/2.5
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Kram
Joined: 06 Feb 2010 Posts: 1344 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Kram wrote:
What is "infinity glass"? |
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014 Posts: 724
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
Hi I keep googling a bit
and I also found a big collection of images from this guy
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.534546843265511.1073742080.478790495507813&type=3
can someone comment if he is photshoping like crazy? From me all these lenses would fall in the artistic category.
Regards
Alex |
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Layer-cake
Joined: 18 Mar 2013 Posts: 560 Location: Cape Town
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Layer-cake wrote:
I think he might be talking about the normal adaptors for Nikon that have the glass element in so you can achieve infinity focus, you can remove the glass as it degrades image quality in most cases a use the lens for macro work.
alaois, that's the domiron another members has mentioned on a different thread, from what read about it today it has interesting qualities and from those pictures I would have to agree!! no idea regarding how much work would be done on the images though. |
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ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011 Posts: 2726 Location: Kiel, Germany.
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:03 am Post subject: |
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ForenSeil wrote:
No he's not photoshopping like crazy. You can't photoshop that bokeh stuff, or at least it would be extremly hard. It needs a little post processing (for example in Lightroom) to get anything out of it and I would say most sample on flickr have some slight PP like slight contrast boost, slight color saturation boost etc.. The Meyer Domiron 50/2 has even more funky in bokeh as the Helios 44 but is generally much more expensive. I have one since a few weels and it makes a lot of fun to use (I do highly prefer it over the Helios 44).
Here's a Domiron sample from last weekend with Sony A7 (FF), altered colors and cropped
Other lenses with funky/artsy bokeh are Meyer Trioplan 100/2.8, Helios 40-2 85/1.5, Jupiter-3 50/1.5, Fujian 35/1.7 for example.
Kram wrote: |
What is "infinity glass"? |
An element that extends flange distance so that you can adapt lenses with shoter flange distance to you camera and still reach infinity when focusing. For example M42 to Nikon adapters or Minolta MD to Sony A etc.
Basically they are 1.1x-1.3x-Teleconverters, made from crappy singlets in most cases.
I've never seen a good one.
memetph wrote: |
I can speak only about my samples , a 44-2 and a 44 M6.
On A7 they are really poor in the corners ans borders ( sharpness).
They are subject to flare. The performance is bad with side light. Due to size of the sensor the problem is disturbing. I could not notice this problem with a smaller sensor ( G3) because it is cropped.
The last and the worst: many lenses have a gohsting issue with the A7. When stopped down, you can see a reflection of the aperture diaphragm on the image. It is certainly an interaction between the sensor and internal reflections in the lens when you face a source of light.
My 44m6 suffers strongly from this. I did not test the 44-2 in this situation.
Probably you will not have those problems with a NEX APS -C.
The 44 M6 is supposed to be sharper than the 44-2. In reallity , I would go for the last one because it is not that obvious in the center . |
+1
Many of my 50mm lenses became somewhat poorer on A7 at wide apertures, even some with very good reputation like Minolta MD 50/1.4. FF-sensors are somewhat more demanding than 1.5x crop and 2x crop, as they are not cropping the "sweet spot". I think Helios 44-2 looks best on 1.5x-1.6x crop like from NEX or most consumer DSLRs from Canon, Sony etc.
That's why I'm currently thinking about buying Sony A6000 as second body, for when I need larger DOF, for tele, or when I need to crop the sweet spot with some lenses.
Maybe the Helios 44-M7/M6 is better on A7. As said I noticed that my 44-M7 had much sharper corners already on 1.5x APS-C than the 44-2 while my 44-2 was slightly sharper in the center.
So for crop sensors I would recommend the 44-2, but for FF the M7 etc. might be the better choice _________________ I'm not a collector, I'm a tester
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
(German language)
Last edited by ForenSeil on Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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alaios
Joined: 24 Jan 2014 Posts: 724
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:05 am Post subject: |
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alaios wrote:
Hi
I am also sharing with the community this link of the same facebook guy
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.534546843265511.1073742080.478790495507813&type=3
where lenses are sorted and more artistic lenses are there. I am not sure though about costs and availability.
Regards
Alex |
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