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Artistic lens, Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58/2 ??
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:13 pm    Post subject: Artistic lens, Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58/2 ?? Reply with quote

Hi I have read first about this lens
Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58/2
in the forum here:

http://www.talkemount.com/showthread.php?t=6232

and it looks to be creating some intresting bokeh. It looks to be selling around 150$ and I was wondering if you know cheaper lenses that they can produce similar results.

I would like to thank you in advance for your reply

Regards
A.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Artistic lens, Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58/2 ?? Reply with quote

alaios wrote:
Hi I have read first about this lens
Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 58/2
in the forum here:

http://www.talkemount.com/showthread.php?t=6232

and it looks to be creating some intresting bokeh. It looks to be selling around 150$ and I was wondering if you know cheaper lenses that they can produce similar results.

I would like to thank you in advance for your reply

Regards
A.


This is your lucky day. The Soviet Helios 44 58/2 is a Biotar copy and is very cheap.

http://forum.mflenses.com/helios-44-xx-pics-add-yours-t29321,start,120.html

http://www.flickr.com/groups/helios44/


PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've also read the yashica ml 50mm 1.9 has some great properties:

http://www.prime35.com/yashica-ml-50mm-f-1-9/

I do like the images and the one of the house probably shows it off best, although when you see what the biotar and Helios are capable of I think its hard to beat............ in that price range.

http://www.talkemount.com/showthread.php?t=6232


PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a lot.. indeed look rather cheap. How guys do you know all this great stuff?
I wonder if stopped down can be also used for a more serious purposes too.

Regards
A


PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me the most salient, most prominent, feature of this CZJ Biotar is the softness of the coatings.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alaios wrote:
I wonder if stopped down can be also used for a more serious purposes too.


Certainly. Helios is good if you like swirly bokeh. With a good copy you do not need to stop down a lot.


PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

guardian wrote:
To me the most salient, most prominent, feature of this CZJ Biotar is the softness of the coatings.


So true. All the cheap ones I've seen had fine scratches. I gave up and just used the Helios. Wonder if I miss a lot?


PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you find the first helios 44 aluminium version on M39 mount it is 1:1 Biotar with changed name. 13 blade aperture, coatings everything is biotar.


PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
I won an auction with the following two lenses:

Yashica DSB 50mm 1:1.9
Yashica DSB 135mm 1:2,8

how I can find is the yashica mentioned here is the same yashica it was on the review you posted? ( http://www.prime35.com/yashica-ml-50mm-f-1-9/ )

Regards
A.


PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alaios wrote:
Hi
I won an auction with the following two lenses:

Yashica DSB 50mm 1:1.9
Yashica DSB 135mm 1:2,8

how I can find is the yashica mentioned here is the same yashica it was on the review you posted? ( http://www.prime35.com/yashica-ml-50mm-f-1-9/ )

Regards
A.

Unfortunately no, you bought the DSB version, you are looking for the ML version. wait and try it and see if you like it.
search "Yashica ML 50/1.9" the lens name ring will say "ML" not "DSB".
Like this one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yashica-50mm-f1-9-ML-Lens-for-Yashica-Contax-/161240962533


PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alaios wrote:
Hi
I won an auction with the following two lenses:

Yashica DSB 50mm 1:1.9
Yashica DSB 135mm 1:2,8

how I can find is the yashica mentioned here is the same yashica it was on the review you posted? ( http://www.prime35.com/yashica-ml-50mm-f-1-9/ )

Regards
A.

No, I reviewed the ML version, which has improved coating and better flare resistance compared to the DSB version. As you can see in my images, I mostly shot against the sun, so the ML coating worked at its fullest potential. In my experience, there is no difference between ML 50/2 and 50/1.9, but the newer all-plastic 50/1.9 c is a different lens, and much less interesting.


PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the answers. I will drop these lenses to the sea then Smile Have not google it that much but did not find anything convincing


PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alaios wrote:
Thanks for the answers. I will drop these lenses to the sea then Smile Have not google it that much but did not find anything convincing


I apologize if my earlier remark regarding coatings was too abrupt. I did not mean to contribute to an impression that Biotars are no good.

My opinion is that this Biotar lens is a fine lens except for the soft coatings. I actually own the lens and it takes good photos. But when I view the very, very fine scratches all across the front element I become frustrated. In "modern speak" it make me want to shout:

"What were they thinking!!" Mad


PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I second that the brokeh and softness of a fully open Biotar are desirable. There are a number of FSU lenses that uses this design and one can get great results from them without spending a lot of money. In fact, I like the single coated helio 44-2 best since it has that dreamy quality no other modern design seem to duplicate. Very Happy

For sharpness and smooth of rendering, my personal preference is Sonnar although I find Plannar pleasing in many respects as well. Again, these are personal opinions. Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed


PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
can you explain why are not desirable a full open Biotar? Do you have any samples to share?

Regards
Alex


PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would any user buy an old Biotar, instead of a much more modern Helios ?
The flare is more interesting, warmer tones ! I much prefer the Helios !
For a Zeiss, I'd rather spend my money on a Pancolar 50 f2 ! Still has some nice swirlies, but sharper in the corners !


PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alaios wrote:
Thanks for the answers. I will drop these lenses to the sea then Smile Have not google it that much but did not find anything convincing


According to a test I read the 135 f2.8 DSB is a super sharp lens better than some famous lenses. You could just have a slight lack of contrast due to coating.


PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi littleearth,
which Helios version are you talking exactly?

Regards
Alex


PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please ignore my last post
I am getting so easily confused with manufactures, abbreviations and lenses versions... so I had to read all from scratch..
Which helios version should I go for?

Regards
Alex


PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are so many around I don't think it matters, you should be able to find a cheap one or a very cheap one if you're patient.
I won a Zenit and a 44-2 on the auction for £16 posted.


PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
I just understood by looking on the ebay that I had a zenit with that lens when I was at the school age... What memories... I need to dig out this camera... where the heck it can be?

Regards
Alex


PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
which 44-X should I prefer?


PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alaios wrote:
Hi,
which 44-X should I prefer?


Most users here would answer 44-2...
I would prefer 44-3 or 44-3M most. Smile


PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi alaios,
you are asking many questions about lenses . May I ask you which camera do you use.
For some lenses it makes a difference.
A Helios is a standard lens on FF and teleobjective on a micro4/3.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alaios wrote:
Hi,
which 44-X should I prefer?

The cheapest in good condition (no scratches, no major dust, no stuck aperture, no stiff focus, no fungus)!
Optical differences between the versions are often smaller than quality spreading.

Some people say the 44-3X series is the best, other say the 44-M7 is the sharpest, and so on.... I had several and yes there are differences but imho they are more or less neglitable. My 44-M7 had sharper edges than 44-2 but softer center, and the 44-2 had a nicer build imho etc.

I had many and finally kept only the 44-2 M42