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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 2901 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:29 pm Post subject: Super Takumar 55mm f/1.8 vs M42 Fujinon 55mm f/1.8 |
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caspert79 wrote:
I received the Fujinon a couple of weeks ago, and played a bit with it. Already through the viewfinder I could see this lens is a solid performer. Today I decided to compare it to another favorite classic, the Super Takumar 55mm f/1.8. Understand this test is limited to what I'm actually testing. Camera A7RII on tripod, with 2 sec self timer.
This is what the lenses look like:
The pictures:
bokehcomparison55mm by devoscasper, on Flickr
First thing that struck me, is that the Super Takumar has bigger bokeh balls, probably indicating a slightly wider aperture at all aperture settings compared to the Fujinon. Furthermore: both lenses have hexagonal bokeh balls when stopped down.
Then, 100% crops of wine label:
crops55mma by devoscasper, on Flickr
Wide open, the Fujinon looks a bit sharper to me, most apparent when looking at the right side of the label.
At f/2.8 the Fujinon is very sharp. Look at the texture of the paper. At smaller apertures, the differences are minor.
Lets look at another 100% crop:
crops55mm by devoscasper, on Flickr
The difference wide open is negligible. At f/2.8, the Fujinon is incredibly sharp, more so than the Takumar. At smaller apertures, the Fujinon is slightly sharper, but the difference is minimal.
Winner of this (limited) lens test is the Fujinon IMO. It is incredibly sharp at f/2.8, considering this is a lens designed for film and not a 42+ mp camera. It actually looks like center resolution is at its optimum at this aperture, which surprises me.
Handling of both lenses is incredibly good. |
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55
Joined: 13 May 2013 Posts: 700 Location: U.S.
Expire: 2022-06-15
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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55 wrote:
Thank you, caspert79.
Your comparisons are concise and well laid out. |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 2901 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
55 wrote: |
Thank you, caspert79.
Your comparisons are concise and well laid out. |
Thanks 😊, I’ll actually have to test them more thoroughly outside, but two small kids and a busy job 😉 |
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55
Joined: 13 May 2013 Posts: 700 Location: U.S.
Expire: 2022-06-15
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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55 wrote:
caspert79 wrote: |
. . . but two small kids and a busy job 😉 |
Yes, understood.
It's good to have such "problems" . |
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Knudsen
Joined: 16 Jun 2021 Posts: 115 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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Knudsen wrote:
_________________ ~Jon |
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Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Posts: 6006 Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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Oldhand wrote:
Thank you for these.
I have always liked both lenses for their wonderful buttery bokeh
My Fujinon seems a little "crisper" closed down than my Tak but I love the Takumar for portraits.
I have owned and sold many nifty fifties, but these two stay
Tom |
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 7776 Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
Interesting test, I have both lenses - I use the Takumar a lot, but the Fujinon very rarely. (I usually use the 2.2 bokeh king.)
Your Takumar looks a lot warmer, is the lens yellowed? _________________ LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 2901 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
Lloydy wrote: |
Interesting test, I have both lenses - I use the Takumar a lot, but the Fujinon very rarely. (I usually use the 2.2 bokeh king.)
Your Takumar looks a lot warmer, is the lens yellowed? |
I think it's the room light. Outside, colors are cooler than the Takumar's. |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 2901 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
Oldhand wrote: |
Thank you for these.
I have always liked both lenses for their wonderful buttery bokeh
My Fujinon seems a little "crisper" closed down than my Tak but I love the Takumar for portraits.
I have owned and sold many nifty fifties, but these two stay
Tom |
Yeah, and they are real bargains, so no need to sell them. |
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KEO
Joined: 27 Sep 2018 Posts: 756 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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KEO wrote:
caspert79 wrote: |
Oldhand wrote: |
Thank you for these.
I have always liked both lenses for their wonderful buttery bokeh
My Fujinon seems a little "crisper" closed down than my Tak but I love the Takumar for portraits.
I have owned and sold many nifty fifties, but these two stay
Tom |
Yeah, and they are real bargains, so no need to sell them. |
I agree with Oldhand about these two. They're both excellent.
I will say this: I own three of the Takumars, and seven of the Fujinons. There's a reason. The Takumars obviously have superb build quality, and they're all equal performers. The Fujinons have a lot more variation in performance from unit to unit, but the two best ones I own are just absolutely incredible. What sold me was shooting macro with them. Using the good ones I can stop them down to f/16 and they're just stunningly sharp - so sharp I couldn't believe my eyes the first time I looked at my RAWs. Unfortunately they don't all measure up to that standard.
Interestingly, my one of my best Fujinons is an old silver-aperture-ring version, and the other is an EBC, so there's not telling whether you've got a great one or just a good one unless you try it out.
The other M42 lens I'd throw into this comparison is the 55mm Auto Mamiya/Sekor f/1.8. I'm impressed with mine every time I try it. |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 2901 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
KEO wrote: |
The other M42 lens I'd throw into this comparison is the 55mm Auto Mamiya/Sekor f/1.8. I'm impressed with mine every time I try it. |
Interesting. I did quite a large test of 50/55/58 mm lenses last year. Most lenses performed equal. But the Mamiya EF 50/1.7 showed that extra bit of sharpness that I see in my Fujinon as well. I should compare the Mamiya and Fujinon one day. |
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Fujinonuser
Joined: 06 Jan 2011 Posts: 128 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Fujinonuser wrote:
Thank you for this very interesting and careful comparison. I always wondered if both lenses are the same, as the lens barrels seem to come from the same manufacturer of barrels. Your comparison confirms my visual impression that the Fujinons have the better white balance, rendering white as purely white, as well as better sharpness and resolution. The Pentax and Takumar lenses always looked warmer to me, with a slight yellow cast. The Fujinon 55mm18 is truly an excellent lens. The non-EBC version has slightly lighter colors, well suited for available-light situations. It would be most interesting to have a comparision between the Fujinon and the Mamiya 55mm18 which has near 99 percent resolution at its optimum aperture of f/5.6. I'd presume that the Mamiya is more prone to flare than the Fujinon. Both Mamiya and Fujinon made their own glass. Please keep us posted. |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 2901 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:57 am Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
Fujinonuser wrote: |
Thank you for this very interesting and careful comparison. I always wondered if both lenses are the same, as the lens barrels seem to come from the same manufacturer of barrels. Your comparison confirms my visual impression that the Fujinons have the better white balance, rendering white as purely white, as well as better sharpness and resolution. The Pentax and Takumar lenses always looked warmer to me, with a slight yellow cast. The Fujinon 55mm18 is truly an excellent lens. The non-EBC version has slightly lighter colors, well suited for available-light situations. It would be most interesting to have a comparision between the Fujinon and the Mamiya 55mm18 which has near 99 percent resolution at its optimum aperture of f/5.6. I'd presume that the Mamiya is more prone to flare than the Fujinon. Both Mamiya and Fujinon made their own glass. Please keep us posted. |
I've compared both lenses actually. The Mamiya is sharper / more contrasty and is actually one of the best classic standard lenses I've ever tested. Didn't do a flare test though. BTW: comparison was with single coated Fujinon. |
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papasito
Joined: 09 Jan 2015 Posts: 1658
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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papasito wrote:
caspert79 wrote: |
Fujinonuser wrote: |
Thank you for this very interesting and careful comparison. I always wondered if both lenses are the same, as the lens barrels seem to come from the same manufacturer of barrels. Your comparison confirms my visual impression that the Fujinons have the better white balance, rendering white as purely white, as well as better sharpness and resolution. The Pentax and Takumar lenses always looked warmer to me, with a slight yellow cast. The Fujinon 55mm18 is truly an excellent lens. The non-EBC version has slightly lighter colors, well suited for available-light situations. It would be most interesting to have a comparision between the Fujinon and the Mamiya 55mm18 which has near 99 percent resolution at its optimum aperture of f/5.6. I'd presume that the Mamiya is more prone to flare than the Fujinon. Both Mamiya and Fujinon made their own glass. Please keep us posted. |
I've compared both lenses actually. The Mamiya is sharper / more contrasty and is actually one of the best classic standard lenses I've ever tested. Didn't do a flare test though. BTW: comparison was with single coated Fujinon. |
In old threads in this forum, some mamiya's collectors and user told that the 55/1,8 TL/DTL were made by Tokina. |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 2901 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
papasito wrote: |
caspert79 wrote: |
Fujinonuser wrote: |
Thank you for this very interesting and careful comparison. I always wondered if both lenses are the same, as the lens barrels seem to come from the same manufacturer of barrels. Your comparison confirms my visual impression that the Fujinons have the better white balance, rendering white as purely white, as well as better sharpness and resolution. The Pentax and Takumar lenses always looked warmer to me, with a slight yellow cast. The Fujinon 55mm18 is truly an excellent lens. The non-EBC version has slightly lighter colors, well suited for available-light situations. It would be most interesting to have a comparision between the Fujinon and the Mamiya 55mm18 which has near 99 percent resolution at its optimum aperture of f/5.6. I'd presume that the Mamiya is more prone to flare than the Fujinon. Both Mamiya and Fujinon made their own glass. Please keep us posted. |
I've compared both lenses actually. The Mamiya is sharper / more contrasty and is actually one of the best classic standard lenses I've ever tested. Didn't do a flare test though. BTW: comparison was with single coated Fujinon. |
In old threads in this forum, some mamiya's collectors and user told that the 55/1,8 TL/DTL were made by Tokina. |
It could be. But once somebody starts a rumor on the web, many people tend to copy it. I haven't seen a reliable source on it yet. |
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 7776 Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
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Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
I've got a couple more 55 / 1.8's - Petri CC Auto and Auto Rokkor PF. ( also a Auto Chinon 55 / 1.7 and a X Fujinon 55 1.6 )
The Petri is very good, as indeed the Rokkor is. I shall try to test them alongside my copies of the Takumar and Fujinon, maybe throw in the X Fujinon and Chinon as well? _________________ LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10463 Location: California
Expire: 2021-06-22
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:31 am Post subject: Re: Super Takumar 55mm f/1.8 vs M42 Fujinon 55mm f/1.8 |
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visualopsins wrote:
caspert79 wrote: |
...
First thing that struck me, is that the Super Takumar has bigger bokeh balls, probably indicating a slightly wider aperture at all aperture settings compared to the Fujinon. ... |
My experience is size of out of focus highlights varies with focusing distance, i.e. magnification. Thus Super Takumar focal length is slightly longer... _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony A7Rii, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Lenses:
Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200
Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300
Macro-Takumar 1:4/50
Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm
Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element),
Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17
Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500
Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100
Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100
SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
Other lenses:
Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto
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titrisol70
Joined: 14 Dec 2021 Posts: 144 Location: State of Denial
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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titrisol70 wrote:
About a decade ago there was this 50mm shootout by Sean Carpenter..
https://pbase.com/carpents/nlsr1m8
Worth a look |
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memetph2
Joined: 02 Dec 2021 Posts: 13 Location: Poland
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:22 am Post subject: |
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memetph2 wrote:
I have the 4 versions of the Takumar , including a multicoated one which has more contrast and even better shaprness.
In my opinion the Takumar has a longer focal length and some focal breathing.
This would be a reason for bokeh differences . |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 2901 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:43 am Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
memetph2 wrote: |
I have the 4 versions of the Takumar , including a multicoated one which has more contrast and even better shaprness.
In my opinion the Takumar has a longer focal length and some focal breathing.
This would be a reason for bokeh differences . |
Judging from my images, the Takumar has longer focal length indeed. In don't have the S-M-C version of the Takumar. I expect somewhat better performance of both the multicoated takumar and multicoated Fujinon, at least under some lighting conditions. |
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titrisol70
Joined: 14 Dec 2021 Posts: 144 Location: State of Denial
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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titrisol70 wrote:
caspert79 wrote: |
memetph2 wrote: |
I have the 4 versions of the Takumar , including a multicoated one which has more contrast and even better shaprness.
In my opinion the Takumar has a longer focal length and some focal breathing.
This would be a reason for bokeh differences . |
Judging from my images, the Takumar has longer focal length indeed. In don't have the S-M-C version of the Takumar. I expect somewhat better performance of both the multicoated takumar and multicoated Fujinon, at least under some lighting conditions. |
Indeed, I have the Super Tak (2x), Super-MultiCoated and K-series 55/1.8
All of them sharp as nails and brilliant.
Last edited by titrisol70 on Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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caspert79
Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Posts: 2901 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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caspert79 wrote:
titrisol70 wrote: |
caspert79 wrote: |
memetph2 wrote: |
I have the 4 versions of the Takumar , including a multicoated one which has more contrast and even better shaprness.
In my opinion the Takumar has a longer focal length and some focal breathing.
This would be a reason for bokeh differences . |
Judging from my images, the Takumar has longer focal length indeed. In don't have the S-M-C version of the Takumar. I expect somewhat better performance of both the multicoated takumar and multicoated Fujinon, at least under some lighting conditions. |
That is somehow subjective.
I have 3 of the 4 versions (sold the 8 element) and I always come back to the early 7 element Super Tak as the one that gives best results.
It might not be the sharpest or the best corrected but the images have an intangible quality that suit my old eyes
The 8 element ST was good, but I preferred the 7 element.
The first K-mount version is a SMC with another mount, from the M series onwards is a different lens. |
I asume you're talking about the 50/1.4? As far as I know there's only a six element 55/1.8. |
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titrisol70
Joined: 14 Dec 2021 Posts: 144 Location: State of Denial
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Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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titrisol70 wrote:
INDERDAAD!!! wrong lens
old-timer disease!
[quote="caspert79"
I asume you're talking about the 50/1.4? As far as I know there's only a six element 55/1.8.[/quote] |
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