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Electronic First (Front) Curtain Shutter
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:16 am    Post subject: Electronic First (Front) Curtain Shutter Reply with quote

On the NEX-7 I have the option of using or not using EFCS. I believe this option is also on the A7 and some other cameras. The benefits of using it are:
- reduced time lag between shutter releases
- fewer shutter movements per shot (extending camera life)
- marginally less vibration

So why would I NOT want to use it?

The manual has two bullet points under the description of the function (page 134 in the GB version) which I find very confusing:
Quote:
• When you shoot at high shutter speeds with a large diameter lens attached, the ghosting of a blurred area
may occur, depending on the subject or shooting conditions. In such cases, set this item to [Off].
• When a Minolta/Konika-Minolta lens is used, set this item to [Off]. If you set this item to [On], the
correct exposure will not be set or the image brightness will be uneven.

I guess the first refers to large aperture lenses. What does "ghosting of a blurred area" mean?

And why only Minolta/Konica-Minolta lenses? What happens with a (e.g.) Pentax lens?

Can anyone shed any light on this, and what are your experiences of EFCS on or off, specifically with MF lenses?


PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could find the 'answer' here: http://www.mhohner.de/newsitem2/efcs .

A short answer will be:
If EFC is enable, the camera is not reading the charge of all the pixels at the same time. Some of the pixels on the sensor will exposure to the light longer than the other pixels. This might create some ghosting/blurred area in the photo.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:19 am    Post subject: Re: Electronic First (Front) Curtain Shutter Reply with quote

peterqd wrote:

• When a Minolta/Konika-Minolta lens is used, set this item to [Off]. If you set this item to [On], the
correct exposure will not be set or the image brightness will be uneven.

I guess the first refers to large aperture lenses. What does "ghosting of a blurred area" mean?

And why only Minolta/Konica-Minolta lenses? What happens with a (e.g.) Pentax lens?

[/quote]
It is Mr Sony's text and therefore refered to Minolta and Konica lenses. This is true for any manual lens , of course.
In practice, you have to accept that the shutter is noisier like on the A7r when you switch the ES off.
This problem appears with speed higher than 1/2000s.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Calvin. I couldn't find a plausible reason not to use EFCS in the link you gave me, but Michael Hohner made a
follow-up page which I found later. He says lenses which are non-telecentric (i.e. the light hits the sensor at varying angles, not
perpendicular) can cause differences in exposure times from one side of the frame to the other.

Memetph, many thanks for that. On my NEX-7 the increase in shutter noise happens at all speeds it seems to me - it's a double
motion compared to a single motion, as Mr Hohner describes in Calvin's link. I don't find the noise annoying at all, in fact it's more like
an SLR shutter sound, but of course the life expectancy of shutter actuations is halved.

Yes, you must be right - this applies to any non-E mount lens. I don't think any of my lenses are telecentric (except perhaps the
E-mount kit lens but I'm not sure about that and, anyway, I don't use it very much). I think I'll turn EFCS off and if I can see any
appreciable difference I'll report back.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take a look at this thread on FCS http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3060853 . There is some insights which Michael might not covered.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I noticed (on A7) that with EFC, you can have problems when the shutter speed is pretty high (more than 1/2000), which will result in this type of vignetting :

http://forum.mflenses.com/nex-6-vignetting-on-one-side-of-image-t64622.html

I never had such problem with EFC "off".


PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

calvin83 wrote:
Take a look at this thread on FCS http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3060853 . There is some insights which Michael might not covered.

One of the posters in that thread mentions the time lag for legacy lenses to stop down. That would only apply to Minolta or Konica
Minolta lenses for A mount using the connecting adapter on the NEX, as other legacy lenses have to be stopped down before shooting
anyway. So that perhaps explains the reason why Sony mention these lenses in the manual. Also there are some plausible
explanations for the "ghosting of a blurred area" due again to the aperture lag. I don't have any A-mount lenses, so neither of these
issues affect me. Thanks for the useful link.


Last edited by peterqd on Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:05 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BurstMox wrote:
I noticed (on A7) that with EFC, you can have problems when the shutter speed is pretty high (more than 1/2000), which will result in this type of vignetting :

http://forum.mflenses.com/nex-6-vignetting-on-one-side-of-image-t64622.html

I never had such problem with EFC "off".

Thanks Pierre. I missed that thread, it visualises very well the effect of the variable exposure problem using EFCS. When I get time I'm
going to try to induce that effect myself, and that will determine for me whether to use EFCS or not. I don't think I've ever taken a
photograph with anything faster than 1/1000 - my habit is to use the lowest ISO setting I can most of the time, and I always stop down to
at least f/5.6. So perhaps the EFCS issue shouldn't affect me much.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please excuse my ignorance -- does NEX have a mechanical shutter (wears out & fails) or electronic shutter (no wear)? Thanks in advance. Smile


PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All digital cameras have mechanical shutters as far as I'm aware. With DSLRs the shutter is normally closed, but because the NEX
cameras are live-view, the shutter has to be open for framing and focussing. So when you take a shot the shutter has to close first
before performing its normal operation and then open again afterwards. This effectively doubles the number of "actuations".

On the NEX-5n and 7, and some of the later bigger Sonys, there is an option in the menu to turn on electronic front (or first) curtain
shutter (EFCS). This wipes the image in the sensor electronically before the shot is taken, so the first actuation to close the shutter is not
required. This halves the number of shutter movements and causes a shorter and quieter shutter noise.


Last edited by peterqd on Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are many camera with electronic shutter. This includes some old Nikon cameras (D40/D70, D1 series and the Nikon 1), some of the Panasonic camera (G5/G6) and the Sony A7s etc. However, the banding problem might become more serious with a full electronic shutter.