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Got me a Helios 44-2, and some questions for what's next!
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:54 pm    Post subject: Got me a Helios 44-2, and some questions for what's next! Reply with quote

UPDATE: I sent him a message pointing out that it is not new and this is what he said: Hello Elias.

This lenses was made many years ago, can't be brand new. But, i've sent You
lens in excellent condition.
I'm very sorry, You're not satisfied. Anyway, You can return it for full refund.

Please, let me know Your decision.

Mika"

It will cost me $11 to ship it. I paid $60 for it (35 GPB). Is its condition really worth the price? Or would I end up doing better for a Helios purchase with the same quality but for a cheaper price (I'd basically have to grab a $50 one with free shipping now). What do you all think I should do? I am lost :\

Hello, all!

I just wanted to join this forum and say hi! This website has really helped me in deciding on an old lens to start with and it is the Helios 44-2 (of course).

I purchased it from moscowphoto on eBay, and his description said it is new. New seems relative for him, because it has scratches on the body everywhere.

I saw some sort of liquid on the blades, but I understand this is likely to happen at some point. Should I just ignore it? I added some pictures to illustrate it.

I looked at other pictures of the lens and some actually have "Helios" on the front of the lens, and a different design of the lens diagram (between the serial number and the name). I'm now worried about this since it cost me around $50 for it being "new". Your input? Should I not worry about the differences? I added a couple of pictures showing scratches and the serial number and name at the front.

I am waiting on the adapter (no optical glass) to use on my D600, and I'm seeking old lenses to expand my collection, if you have any suggestions! I'm looking for something more for portraiture this time.


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Last edited by Theharbingerr on Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:37 am; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re-upload the pictures can't see them sorry Very Happy
Like new does not mean with grease on the aperture blades and scratched elements.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I re-uploaded the pictures but nothing showing up!

EDIT: they are actually just huge, haha. If you give them a second.

Here's the link to the actual page from eBay. It does say new :\

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/151137958715?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're not satisfied with the item you purchased, let the seller know it.
Arrange with him for refund and send the item back.
He seems to be very good with Photoshop, or it's not even the same lens,

[]s,

Renato


PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used quite a few lenses with some oil on the blades without a problem but the ad definitely says brand new , unopened box and your lens has signs of use on the body.

You should be able to return the lens free of charge as the item isn't as described or the seller should give you a partial refund if you can come to some sort of agreement.

It's a nice lens to use but servicing it might be quite a task, worked on a 44m-4 and it wasn't a particularly easy lens to work ok!


PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

send the damn thing back! That is NOTHING like the one advertised.

It would interesting to buy something like the Zorki 4K they have listed which shows very clearly the serial number in the ebay listing. I wonder if the same camera is the one you would receive?


PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Renato has suggested, I also think it is not the same lens.
Could be a simple mistake - wrong lens packed and mailed - he must sell dozens of them.
Contact him and work it out.
Here is his banner ad from the sale:


PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you guys for replying to me! I am very glad I came here for further help, as I would have let it go. I have contacted the seller as recommended. Hopefully it will somehow get resolved somehow. I will update here or by another post if it is okay with the mods.


PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that any of that "damage" will effect image quality much, but this is a matter of getting what you paid for...
It seems that this condition will not be satisfied.

So, without any regrets, return the item, and get another one which is mint \ like new;
This is very easy to do, because there are literally hundreds of Helios 44 of each specific model being sold on ebay, and you can surely find one in much better condition and even for less money...


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't realize that in '94 there were Helios 44-2 being made,

Renato


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moscowphoto is strange seller...often had for sale fake ZK for exemple. Also his price are quite high. So it would not really surprise me if his H44-2 are not that new.

I remember he had lot of Helios 44-3M for sale, and some users here (including me) bought from him Helios-103, big stock (he had around 50 H-103)
Quote:
I didn't realize that in '94 there were Helios 44-2 being made,


It was not made in '94. Also with MMZ/BeLomo serial, you can't really know the millesime of the lens (not like KMZ)


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BurstMox wrote:
Moscowphoto is strange seller...often had for sale fake ZK for exemple. Also his price are quite high. So it would not really surprise me if his H44-2 are not that new.

I remember he had lot of Helios 44-3M for sale, and some users here (including me) bought from him Helios-103, big stock (he had around 50 H-103)
Quote:
I didn't realize that in '94 there were Helios 44-2 being made,


It was not made in '94. Also with MMZ/BeLomo serial, you can't really know the millesime of the lens (not like KMZ)


Great, thanks!

[]s,

Renato


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That seller has a rather shifty reputation... his stuff is usually not as advertised, but it doesn't seem to affect his rating that much. He's been known to interchange lens parts on occasion if angry buyers on various forums are to be believed. I've had great lenses from him and also had disasters like yours. My impression is that he comes into lots of stock and really doesn't know much about what he's selling so claims that everything is "new" or "like new, unused stock." 80% of the time, the lens is well-used and certainly not looking for its first owner.

You could either return it or expect a significant partial-refund.

If you end up keeping it, what's good with the Helios is that it is very easy to take apart and service yourself. Most Russian lens's major components screw apart easily (or at most with a spanner). The glass cleans up nice and the oil on the aperture blades is easily swabbed off with some rubbing alcohol. It's not uncommon for the old Russian lenses to get oily blades, but I've never known them seize up and stop working if left as-is (you'd just have to be aware of the reflections the oil creates). I presume this is because of the preset aperture's design.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eeec wrote:
That seller has a rather shifty reputation... his stuff is usually not as advertised, but it doesn't seem to affect his rating that much. He's been known to interchange lens parts on occasion if angry buyers on various forums are to be believed. I've had great lenses from him and also had disasters like yours. My impression is that he comes into lots of stock and really doesn't know much about what he's selling so claims that everything is "new" or "like new, unused stock." 80% of the time, the lens is well-used and certainly not looking for its first owner.

You could either return it or expect a significant partial-refund.

If you end up keeping it, what's good with the Helios is that it is very easy to take apart and service yourself. Most Russian lens's major components screw apart easily (or at most with a spanner). The glass cleans up nice and the oil on the aperture blades is easily swabbed off with some rubbing alcohol. It's not uncommon for the old Russian lenses to get oily blades, but I've never known them seize up and stop working if left as-is (you'd just have to be aware of the reflections the oil creates). I presume this is because of the preset aperture's design.


Thank you for informing me! I should have researched more about him to begin with. I looked at the page's picture, and it barely shows the first letter of the serial number. In it, the first number is 8. Mine starts with a 7.

I'm wary about servicing it myself, considering I know little about opening them up to begin with. Depending on the refund amount, I am considering seeing any lens service place here in Calgary.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theharbingerr wrote:
eeec wrote:
That seller has a rather shifty reputation... his stuff is usually not as advertised, but it doesn't seem to affect his rating that much. He's been known to interchange lens parts on occasion if angry buyers on various forums are to be believed. I've had great lenses from him and also had disasters like yours. My impression is that he comes into lots of stock and really doesn't know much about what he's selling so claims that everything is "new" or "like new, unused stock." 80% of the time, the lens is well-used and certainly not looking for its first owner.

You could either return it or expect a significant partial-refund.

If you end up keeping it, what's good with the Helios is that it is very easy to take apart and service yourself. Most Russian lens's major components screw apart easily (or at most with a spanner). The glass cleans up nice and the oil on the aperture blades is easily swabbed off with some rubbing alcohol. It's not uncommon for the old Russian lenses to get oily blades, but I've never known them seize up and stop working if left as-is (you'd just have to be aware of the reflections the oil creates). I presume this is because of the preset aperture's design.


Thank you for informing me! I should have researched more about him to begin with. I looked at the page's picture, and it barely shows the first letter of the serial number. In it, the first number is 8. Mine starts with a 7.

I'm wary about servicing it myself, considering I know little about opening them up to begin with. Depending on the refund amount, I am considering seeing any lens service place here in Calgary.


Refund should be total if he has sent the wrong lens. If you have to return it - he pays return postage also under Ebay rules for open disputes AFAIK.
Talk to him first.
Sellers like their buyers to be happy and he has publicly said so on the listing.
99% of the time these things can be sorted out simply by contacting the seller.
OH


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oldhand wrote:
Theharbingerr wrote:
eeec wrote:
That seller has a rather shifty reputation... his stuff is usually not as advertised, but it doesn't seem to affect his rating that much. He's been known to interchange lens parts on occasion if angry buyers on various forums are to be believed. I've had great lenses from him and also had disasters like yours. My impression is that he comes into lots of stock and really doesn't know much about what he's selling so claims that everything is "new" or "like new, unused stock." 80% of the time, the lens is well-used and certainly not looking for its first owner.

You could either return it or expect a significant partial-refund.

If you end up keeping it, what's good with the Helios is that it is very easy to take apart and service yourself. Most Russian lens's major components screw apart easily (or at most with a spanner). The glass cleans up nice and the oil on the aperture blades is easily swabbed off with some rubbing alcohol. It's not uncommon for the old Russian lenses to get oily blades, but I've never known them seize up and stop working if left as-is (you'd just have to be aware of the reflections the oil creates). I presume this is because of the preset aperture's design.


Thank you for informing me! I should have researched more about him to begin with. I looked at the page's picture, and it barely shows the first letter of the serial number. In it, the first number is 8. Mine starts with a 7.

I'm wary about servicing it myself, considering I know little about opening them up to begin with. Depending on the refund amount, I am considering seeing any lens service place here in Calgary.


Refund should be total if he has sent the wrong lens. If you have to return it - he pays return postage also under Ebay rules for open disputes AFAIK.
Talk to him first.
Sellers like their buyers to be happy and he has publicly said so on the listing.
99% of the time these things can be sorted out simply by contacting the seller.
OH


Thanks! This is what he said:

"Hello Elias.

This lenses was made many years ago, can't be brand new. But, i've sent You
lens in excellent condition.
I'm very sorry, You're not satisfied. Anyway, You can return it for full refund.

Please, let me know Your decision.

Mika"

It will cost me $11 to ship it (but a refund means he pays for return, no?). I paid $60 for it (35 GPB). Is its condition really worth the price? Or would I end up doing better for a Helios purchase with the same quality but for a cheaper price. What do you all think I should do? Just stick with it or no?

EDIT: quick look on eBay gives one that actually says there is a bit of internal dust AND oil on blades, but sells for half the price of this..


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, return postage should be included in a refund - I know, as a seller, I have had to pay postage on one occasion, but it was just over a year ago. I don't think this has changed.
Helios 44-2 should be available in good condition for between 20-30 GBP if you look around and as Attila says check out the seller as well.
Take some images with the lens. I would.
If they are spectacular, you might like to keep it in spite of its scratches.
If not you can return it.
OH


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theharbingerr wrote:
I re-uploaded the pictures but nothing showing up!

EDIT: they are actually just huge, haha. If you give them a second.

Here's the link to the actual page from eBay. It does say new :\

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/151137958715?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

No there not huge Smile Their automaticly resized. But don't accept his offer. He needs to refund your lens and pay for shipping, because he lied/photoshopt I had this before and told them I would send the lens back but it costs more then the lens itself. (True). He wanted to pay half, I still not agreed and mention I would open up a ebay claim and leave bad feedback. The seller returned all my money and I still have this lens. (he asked me to give him a positive rating on Ebay, I gave him a polite FU) DON'T SETTLE FOR: ITS AN OLD LENS .. He said its like new, but it isn't. Old lenses could be as new. If it has dust and oil on the blades he should have mentioned it.

And one more thing your lens doesn't look as bad as mine did, but don't show appreciation to scamming ebay seller by compromising. There are many MANY USSR (Russians and former member states) seller that just try to scam you with garbage and act all surprised. They know exactly what you mean.

Oldhand wrote:
As Renato has suggested, I also think it is not the same lens.
Could be a simple mistake - wrong lens packed and mailed - he must sell dozens of them.
Contact him and work it out.
Here is his banner ad from the sale:

I'm sorry, you're really naive to think he really means it. This banner has the same value as a instruction manual from your microwave. : Don't put your pets and kids in it to dry.
It's no mistake, I just might be a bit cynical about Russian dealers Smile But sadly most of them are scum.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Got me a Helios 44-2, and some questions for what's next Reply with quote

Theharbingerr wrote:

I am waiting on the adapter (no optical glass) to use on my D600, and I'm seeking old lenses to expand my collection, if you have any suggestions! I'm looking for something more for portraiture this time.


On a Nikon you have less choices than on the other dSLRs. By the way, this lens with a glassless adapter will not focus at infinity, so you will use it for macro/closeup only.
However, you can use old Nikon lenses (with some limitation I do not know exactly), those with T/T2/Adaptall mounts, those made for medium format cameras, enlarger lenses>70mm if you have a focusing helicoid or bellows. For portraits, a cheap old Nikon lens is the 100/2.8 E Series.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Thank you for informing me! I should have researched more about him to begin with. I looked at the page's picture, and it barely shows the first letter of the serial number. In it, the first number is 8. Mine starts with a 7.

I'm wary about servicing it myself, considering I know little about opening them up to begin with. Depending on the refund amount, I am considering seeing any lens service place here in Calgary.


The lens on the image is naturely not the one he send, because of this :



You can't have more than 10 lens with same serial (even not 2) naturely. So, he just show a sample photo, and pick in his stock a random lens.


PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogtag wrote:

Like new does not mean with grease on the aperture blades and scratched elements.


It should not mean scratched body/glass, but I would expect grease on the aperture blades. These are manual aperture lenses and Soviet ones are known to have their aperture blades oiled. Oily aperture blades are clearly an issue only with auto aperture lenses.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BurstMox wrote:


The lens on the image is naturely not the one he send, because of this :
...
You can't have more than 10 lens with same serial (even not 2) naturely. So, he just show a sample photo, and pick in his stock a random lens.


wow, didn't actually realize this, when i was buying lenses for me... good to know (but i think, that it may be at least mentioned in description for items like this, that the images are illustrational only, not what you see is what you get)... fortunately, I was looking for items with S/N specified anyways, so I didn't even have to deal with things like this Smile


PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Pierre has said,
It is something of a minefield when buying one of a multiple lot unless they are all brand new.
Naturally the seller will illustrate the best of them in the listing.
Caveat emptor indeed.
OH


PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regards your position on refunds and postage refunds, ebay uses various countries' distance selling regulations. If your country does not require the seller to refund return postage then you must pay it.

I wish you luck. But as others have said old lenses like the Russians will or may have oil on the blades. This doesnt affect anything. The M44/2 can be opened by hand with a firm twisting of the front of the barrel. Dab the blades with a cotton bud dampened with lighter fuel, activate them a bit then dry off what liquid you can see. Leave the front element off overnight before screwing it back on. Dab off any remainiing oily liquid before reassembly. No problem.

Phil


PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, but sometimes i ask myself, what people think they buy if they go for old lenses ?

Oil on blades after many Years are nearly normal on russian lenses.. that was discussed on many forums all over the world, an its a fact.

The buyer cant read and understand, that "as new" simply means not new.. but in good condition. Some signs of transport or little use are normal.

And finally, whats the seller wants to do with a lens?

Taking pictures or win an exhibition of who has the cleanest lens?

Go out and take pictures with the lens and then decide if there are faults or abberations which cause to say, the lens IQ ! is not as new.

If the lens is faulty working/decentered or did have bad IQ, send the lens back and take the full refund.

Count out what time and effort you spent in discussing this cosmetical missatisfaction, the work to package the lens again, bring it to your parcel service, the extra costs for you and or the seller... and thats for cosmetical "peanuts"..

Deal with him for a little refund if you mean, that the marks are so important ...

A lens is for taking pictures, especially an one of a million lens like this... not for bring this lens to an exhibition..