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alex ph
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 1571
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 2:20 pm Post subject: CZJ Pancolar 1.8/50 with a deep scratch on the front lens |
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alex ph wrote:
As it is relatively well known, front lens defaults may have a very subtle impact on lens' performance. I remember an impressive report years ago by someone showing tes shots taken with a lens with literally broken front glass: it still worked pretty fine, the main difference was in flare resistance, some contrast fall and bokeh shape.
Personnaly I already had an experience with Jupiter-8 full of fungus and still a very good performer. Here is another confirmation of the "glass resilience", a Carl Zeiss Jena Pancolar 1.8/50 with a deep circular scratch on the front glass which looks pretty scaring.
I did not have an opportunity to check it against the shining sun, as there is no sun in these days. Otherwise I could not see any perceptible flaws in its perfomance. In the dull light of these days the scratched lens renders as well as another, perfectly preserved copy of Pancolar.
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kiddo
Joined: 29 Jun 2018 Posts: 1120
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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kiddo wrote:
That subtle impact ,would show starting from f8 .... |
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Lloydy
Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 7785 Location: Ironbridge. UK.
Expire: 2022-01-01
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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Lloydy wrote:
Which model Pancolar ? I think I have a mint one with parts missing from the aperture mechanism. _________________ LENSES & CAMERAS FOR SALE.....
I have loads of stuff that I have to get rid of, if you see me commenting about something I have got and you want one, ask me.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mudplugga/
My ipernity -
http://www.ipernity.com/home/294337 |
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alex ph
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 1571
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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alex ph wrote:
Good point, Kiddo. I tested it up to f5.6 but did not think to close the iris more.
Lloydy, this is a "zebra" version from 1969 or 1970. |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10530 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
At some angles with strong light source(s) just out frame you'll see flare. My experience with small nick front element of 1.8/85. _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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Gerald
Joined: 25 Mar 2014 Posts: 1196 Location: Brazil
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: CZJ Pancolar 1.8/50 with a deep scratch on the front len |
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Gerald wrote:
alex ph wrote: |
... a lens with literally broken front glass: it still worked pretty fine, the main difference was in flare resistance, some contrast fall and bokeh shape.
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If you paint the scratch or the chipped part of the lens with black paint, the flare will go away. This is an old trick that I believe is not very much known these days. _________________ If raindrops were perfect lenses, the rainbow did not exist. |
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alex ph
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 1571
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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alex ph wrote:
Definitely, both flare and black paint are very interesting points. I should catch up a sunny day and test all that. |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10530 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
out of focus highlights "bokeh balls" is the other place to look at effects. _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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alex ph
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 1571
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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alex ph wrote:
The bokeh would be interesting to test, as the scratch is rather thin and long.
Here and here are a couple of interesting articles (accompanied with test shots) exploring the cracked front glass issue.
UPD: Ha-ha, and there is a similar funny story about de-bugging an expensive lens. |
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papasito
Joined: 09 Jan 2015 Posts: 1658
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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papasito wrote:
My experience with black paint was not so good. Can be zones in shadows in the film (Old times).
A years the pancolar 50 is not expensive, perhaps you can buy another in good shape |
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alex ph
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 1571
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Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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alex ph wrote:
Thank you for your piece of experience, papasito. I already have two or three Pancolars in their different iterations. This copy was just offered at a very reduced price due to the scratch, and my curiosity was stronger than the strict reason. |
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Sciolist
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 Posts: 1445 Location: Scotland
Expire: 2021-04-16
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Sciolist wrote:
What size sensor did you use, Alex? |
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alex ph
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 1571
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:38 am Post subject: |
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alex ph wrote:
That was a Sony APS-C. |
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Sciolist
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 Posts: 1445 Location: Scotland
Expire: 2021-04-16
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Sciolist wrote:
alex ph wrote: |
That was a Sony APS-C. |
I just wondered if the light from the damaged area of glass would be outside the sensor. |
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alex ph
Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 1571
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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alex ph wrote:
You might be right! So, the programme for a sunny day in spring is getting more and more precise: Sony FF + stray light + patched background (for OOF shapes) + f8 and narrower + black marker. |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10530 Location: California
Expire: 2025-04-11
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Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Aps-c uses part of the image circle, but all of the front element surface unless aperture diaphragm is closed. _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony ILCE-7RM2, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
Lenses:
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200, Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300, Macro-Takumar 1:4/50, Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm, Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element), Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17, Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500, Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100, Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100, SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
M42 Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
Contax Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* 28-70mm F3.5-4.5
Pentax K-mount SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto (Kiron)
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