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An afternoon in Lunigiana, part 2: Villafranca and Sorato
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:20 am    Post subject: An afternoon in Lunigiana, part 2: Villafranca and Sorato Reply with quote
Second part of series...
Villafranca Lunigiana. This ancient village was heavily bombed during WWII. Only a few of the mediaeval buildings survived.
The mediaeval bridge survived only in part so it underwent extensive restoration.

#1 - Biogon 2.8/25 ZM



#2 - Biogon 2.8/25 ZM



#3 - Biogon 2.8/25 ZM



#4 - Biogon 2.8/25 ZM



Sorano:

#5 - Biogon 2/35 ZM
This and the following image: Parish church of St. Stephen (11th century after Christ)



#6 - Biogon 2/35 ZM


PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
You can sell some of your pictures for postcards and too promote the tourism in your country as well Very Happy ....Simply lovely series....


PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks Pascal!
Maybe I'll try Smile


PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well Orio all your shots posted here are very good, so for me I'm also interested in what you say:- do you know why this place was heavily bombed?

Also I had no idea what lens you were using so looked it up.... this guy had initial problems with your Zeiss lens on a M9:-

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2010/02/25/the-zeiss-zm-35-biogon-f2-lens-review-on-the-leica-m9/


PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excalibur wrote:
Well Orio all your shots posted here are very good, so for me I'm also interested in what you say:- do you know why this place was heavily bombed?


The Lunigiana was the just behind the front of the Gothic Line.
all the area from the harbour of La Spezia to Sarzana and Carrara was heavily bombed.
There was an old castle near the village of Villafranca Lunigiana, that was completely destroyed by the bombs,
most probably because it was used by German troops.

Excalibur wrote:
Also I had no idea what lens you were using so looked it up.... this guy had initial problems with your Zeiss lens on a M9:-
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2010/02/25/the-zeiss-zm-35-biogon-f2-lens-review-on-the-leica-m9/


I read it, it was just a matter to find the profile that best matches the lens. All Leica lenses have a profile stored in the M9, but of course Zeiss lenses don't.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's a shame Italy was attacked as British people didn't consider Italians to be the "real" enemy, and was probably only done to show Stalin that the British and Americans were doing something in the war other than inaccurate bombing of Germany.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excalibur wrote:
It's a shame Italy was attacked as British people didn't consider Italians to be the "real" enemy, and was probably only done to show Stalin that the British and Americans were doing something in the war other than inaccurate bombing of Germany.


I think it was quite unavoidable, as many German units were dislocated on the appennines (from tyrrenian coast through all tuscany, southern Wmilia and eastwards to the adriatic sea) to try and stop (or at least slow down), while retreating, the allied forces coming from south and inflict the major damage possible, in order to try and keep northern Italy and the alpine passes that gave acces to central europe.
The German strategy worked quite well, as it took months and many losses to the anglo-americans to break the line.
The area had a great strategic importance, and even if Italy wasn't considered the "real" enemy, they were attacking german forces.
It was war, after all.
Not that it wasn't a shame, all those beautiful places destroyed by bombs.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Aanything wrote:
Excalibur wrote:
It's a shame Italy was attacked as British people didn't consider Italians to be the "real" enemy, and was probably only done to show Stalin that the British and Americans were doing something in the war other than inaccurate bombing of Germany.


I think it was quite unavoidable, as many German units were dislocated on the appennines (from tyrrenian coast through all tuscany, southern Wmilia and eastwards to the adriatic sea) to try and stop (or at least slow down), while retreating, the allied forces coming from south and inflict the major damage possible, in order to try and keep northern Italy and the alpine passes that gave acces to central europe.
The German strategy worked quite well, as it took months and many losses to the anglo-americans to break the line.
The area had a great strategic importance, and even if Italy wasn't considered the "real" enemy, they were attacking german forces.
It was war, after all.
Not that it wasn't a shame, all those beautiful places destroyed by bombs.


Well I'm guessing... that many Italians were glad to see the back of the German army and thought that being liberated by the multinational force attacking their country, was worth some devastation Wink


PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
great series, very enjoyable. and as always, they very much convey a sense of place. btw ive never seen a bad photo with the m9/zeiss 25 combo--just awesome.
tony


PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excalibur wrote:

Well I'm guessing... that many Italians were glad to see the back of the German army and thought that being liberated by the multinational force attacking their country, was worth some devastation Wink


Not only many were happy (some were not, though, and fought together with the Germans), but on those very mountains, slightly north of the Gotenstellung they organized themselves in groups of partisans (civilian, former soldiers that abandoned the nazi-fascist forces) that fought - and sometimes won - against the Germans in dangerous guerrilla actions. Some areas were actually liberated before the allied forces arrived.
Then the "resistenza" (this organized partisans actions) was adopted by a specific political part, and become a strong point in left-wing propaganda after WWII in Italy, so it's quite a thorny topic.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excalibur wrote:

Well I'm guessing... that many Italians were glad to see the back of the German army and thought that being liberated by the multinational force attacking their country, was worth some devastation Wink


I'm afraid that both your perspective and that of Aanything are too idealized and book-based.
I did not experience war directly, Thanks God, but my mother and father did, and so did all of my family (grandparents, uncles and aunts).
Do you want to know the truth about many Italians? They were simply terrified, and wanted the deaths and devastation to end as soon as possible,
no matter in favour of what side.
Maybe not very heroic or consolating? But that is the truth. Most civilian people did not care a single bit about what side.
The thoughts people used to have, at the time, were, in this order (as told me by my grand mother):

- stay alive
- feed your children
- pray to have your men back at home safe
- pray that your house was not destroyed

Sympathizing with the devastation? Getting machine-gunned by a fighter airplane when you were bicycle-going on a country road with a friend,
as it happened to my father (a young boy at the time), and saving your life by jumping into the roadside canal,
with the bullets bouncing on the ground a meter away from you, wasn't the kind of things that helped civilians sympathizing for the airplane raids.
And neither did the nights of terror spent in the underground shelters while the bombs were falling over your head.

The SS command that was located here did not make any harm to the population. I know that somewhere else in Italy they made atrocities to the civil population,
but here, Thanks God, they did not. We've been lucky. My aunt Gabriella (8 yrs old at the time) used to go every morning to the marketplace where the Waffen SS soldiers
were camped, and they allowed her play with their shepherd dogs, actually they were friendly with her. According to what all my relatives told me, the German occupation forces
have always been respectful of the civil population, never annoyed the girls (like the Mengjiang troops did instead) or took away food from the family desk.
The only thing that they asked, my great-grandmother told me, was to clean the chicken that they used to bring at my family's place, because they were not able to do it.
They were very young soldiers, just like my uncles who were away for war, so my great-grandma did care for them and pray that somewhere, some other mother would do the same
for her boys. That was the kind of feeling that the population felt during the war, as told me by my family.

War, as seen from the perspective of the civil population, has a totally different perspective than seen from the point of view
of the soldiers, or of the politically engaged, or the history books.

Anyway, this is off-topic. We can continue the talk about this, but in the Dive bar.


PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
rbelyell wrote:
great series, very enjoyable. and as always, they very much convey a sense of place. btw ive never seen a bad photo with the m9/zeiss 25 combo--just awesome.
tony


Thanks much Tony!


PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well Orio very interesting reading views from the other side and indeed it's well off topic..so would just add "weren't Italians ever pleased they had their freedom to do what they like, after the allies left Italy"


PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Excalibur wrote:
Well Orio very interesting reading views from the other side and indeed it's well off topic..so would just add "weren't Italians ever pleased they had their freedom to do what they like, after the allies left Italy"


Mussolini's opinion would be " a view from the other side". I just reported the thoughts and feelings of the common people,
that I have received as testimony from the older members of my family.
They were not a side - just hazelnuts between the two vises of a nutcracker.
"Freedom to do what they like" is not exactly the case, anyway, with 113 USA military bases (and 90 USA controlled atomic bombs)
still active on Italian land as of today, Sept. 19th, 2013 - 68 years after the end of the war...
We just switched from one occupation to another.
But like I said, this is off topic so please open a thread in dive bar if you like to continue this discussion.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The church! I'm sold Smile


PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lena wrote:
The church! I'm sold Smile


Thanks Lena. It's beautiful, isn't it Smile
I love the Romanesque style... so simple, essential, spiritual. So distant from the excess of the Gothic.


PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Same here. These buildings are unbelievable in their simplicity.
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