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Changing Helios 44 to ultra low contrast lens
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

florentin77 wrote:
hello,

thanks for all your replies!

i was looking on ebay for an old defect lens. habent for one yet! i got a hexanon 40mm for 17€ - but that stays the way it is! im working on getting a helios! whoch one do you guys prefere? the 44M2?

thanks for helping:-)


take the cheapest you find - you are going to ruin it, no need for the best one (and differences are minimal).


PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
All Helios 44s are coated.


OK, I meant a Helios that has a crappy coating and flares up easily Smile


PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having work in film and TV for 20 years we have a saying.
Shit in, shit out.

You must be 100% on this, because when you change your mind, that footage isn't ever going to be rescued.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edited

Last edited by bernhardas on Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:01 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alternate Internet ID wrote:
Having work in film and TV for 20 years we have a saying.
Shit in, shit out.

You must be 100% on this, because when you change your mind, that footage isn't ever going to be rescued.



Laughing


PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Confused I am a little surprised by some of these critiques - Personally I like manual glass is because the images are unique - some of my lenses are slightly soft, some glowy - some with crazy bokeh, none technically quite as good as modern AF glass. But once I get to know each lens's idiosyncrasies I feel I can use them to create images with slightly more depth than what I can get with technically better glass... Maybe with a lot of careful thought and planning you can add some of that depth in post, but a lot of the time you can't - I don't see how this is any different.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alternate Internet ID wrote:
Having work in film and TV for 20 years we have a saying.
Shit in, shit out.

You must be 100% on this, because when you change your mind, that footage isn't ever going to be rescued.


Exactly, my degree is in film & TV production and one thing they always drummed into us was to record things in 'the clear' because you can always add an effect later, but you can't take it off.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's also probably not that hard to find lenses in bad shape. I have an ISCO Westar with an abraded front element if anybody wants a special effect haze/soft focus lens. Very Happy I also had a moldy Helios once that gave a soft contrast effect.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you would be better off looking for lenses with low contrast that haven't been butchered, then charged double what they are worth.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I can find on the web, there seems to be a number of different alterations they're making to these lenses.

The front element is being stripped of its coating, and sometimes re-coated - I've found a "red flare" version on the web made by someone else, and whatever they're using as the coating does seem to be influencing the colour of flare under some circumstances. Somewhere in front of the rear element a cats-eye insert is being added. This gives a bokeh shape similar to the characteristic anamorphic look.

And as I said, most of this forum wouldn't be expected to understand this. And the responses to this thread are pretty much what I expected here.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disagreeing or not liking the result is different from not understanding.
In these processes working lenses are ruined and this is a fact.
Another fact: PP is undoable, lens flares/reflections aren't.
Then, if knowing these facts you still think it's worth it, go ahead and uncoat, paint grind whatever.
I used to shot my first music videos using super8 film, and digitized that by projecting it over strange surfaces.
If I showed the result now many people would say it sucks, and probably they'd be right, but that was the look I wanted, and the way to get it.
So there's no right or wrong, there are facts and opinions. And, as we say in Italy, opinions are like a**h**es: anyone has its own.
(the quote about opinions actually comes from a movie I don't remember)


PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have the same saying in England about opinions. Smile

I don't see the problem with taking junk lenses that are damaged and no good for 'normal' shooting and playing with those to get different effects.

One source of uncoated lenes is pre-war folding cameras, plenty of those around that are junk due to condition.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i was going to buy an broken 44 and take it apart but i havent found one yet! they r all in quite good condition. i wouldnt destroy a good working lens! im not into the flares but more in the saturation/contrast. I dont want to use any digital filters. Im gonna try to take off the coating of a broken 50/1.7 minolta md.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a flare shot from my Zebra Helios 44-2 shot on the EOS 5D classic.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the main thing this company does is to take the black finish of the lens away, most likely on a lathe.
An easy way to get with some luck nearly the same results could be aluminium foil. Take thin aluminium foil for kitchen use and warp it around inner barrel parts.
This could be removable.

Last year I made some tests with screwed out front ring from the Helios 44 to get the build in hood away.
But I was not satisfied. Coating removal is another way, but results are quite different. Only small difference as long as you have the sun shining on you back. With the sun in the image or near of this much more reflections. But in the moment I think a plane dirty glass (bad UV filter) hand held front of a normal lens works better for reflections / flares.