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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
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Location: Cheshire, England
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 Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:19 am Post subject: Biotar vs Helios test |
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philslizzy wrote:
The helios 44 58mm f2 is a copy of the Biotar. I wondered if anyone has done an actual side by side comparison between the two lenses. I would be interested if the resolution and bokeh are similar.
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:35 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I have a 1950s silver Biotar and have owned loads of Helioses.
The Biotar is better than 90% of the Helios copies I've had, but the best Helios copies are just as good as the Biotar.
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:39 am Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
I agree with IAN.
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
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Location: Cheshire, England
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 11:41 am Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
I have a 1950s silver Biotar and have owned loads of Helioses.
The Biotar is better than 90% of the Helios copies I've had, but the best Helios copies are just as good as the Biotar. |
That I would have expected Ian but a comparison would be good.
Remember that post when i claimed that bokeh is influenced by the finish of the lens, i.e how well it had been polished? That was in mind when i asked about the bokeh, I'm trying to prove/disprove a point. My point being that just because the lenses are ground to the same formula does not make it the same as what it is copied from. And Russian engineering being what it was... A Biotar formula does not make a Biotar.
So which Helios copies are as good? I have Helioses from the 60's to the 90's.
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enliten
Joined: 20 Sep 2011
Posts: 201
Location: Perth, WA
Expire: 2014-07-03
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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enliten wrote:
Here are my impressions of both (from memory),
I have a biotar as well as a helios 44m-5 and a 44m-6. I feel that the helios lenses are better only with regard to contrast.
I'll try and do some comparison shots tomorrow morning 
-Ben
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I've never done a comparison Phil, sorry. I would be happy to lend you my Biotar if you are curious.
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ferrick
Joined: 20 Apr 2012
Posts: 643
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Biotar vs Helios test |
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ferrick wrote:
| philslizzy wrote: |
The helios 44 58mm f2 is a copy of the Biotar. I wondered if anyone has done an actual side by side comparison between the two lenses. I would be interested if the resolution and bokeh are similar.
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I have a biotar as well as a Helios 44M-7. It appears to me that the 44M-7 is as well as, if not better than, the Biotar.  |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
The condition of the Biotar must always be taken into account. There are a lot of Biotars out there that are not so great anymore because the front glass is a soft type and prone to scratches. You always need to be careful with buying a Biotar to inspect the front glass carefully. If it has lots of fine scratches, which many of them do, then better to pass on it.
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dimitrygo
Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 561
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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dimitrygo wrote:
| philslizzy wrote: |
| Remember that post when i claimed that bokeh is influenced by the finish of the lens, i.e how well it had been polished? That was in mind when i asked about the bokeh, I'm trying to prove/disprove a point. My point being that just because the lenses are ground to the same formula does not make it the same as what it is copied from. And Russian engineering being what it was... A Biotar formula does not make a Biotar. |
The Helios formula is probably not 100% copy of Biotar so even if their bokeh is different this won't proof your point.
http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=38216&highlight=%2Bhelios+%2Bbiotar&sid=97a8cf99c06ca5bc1fd989dac1f91d7d
http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=50800&highlight=%2Bhelios+%2Bbiotar&sid=97a8cf99c06ca5bc1fd989dac1f91d7d
Last edited by dimitrygo on Thu May 23, 2013 3:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ferrick
Joined: 20 Apr 2012
Posts: 643
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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ferrick wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| The condition of the Biotar must always be taken into account. There are a lot of Biotars out there that are not so great anymore because the front glass is a soft type and prone to scratches. You always need to be careful with buying a Biotar to inspect the front glass carefully. If it has lots of fine scratches, which many of them do, then better to pass on it. |
OIC. My Biotar is a silver exakta version. As you said, the front glass (or coating, I don't know) is not perfect! That may be the reason why my newer 44M-7 sometimes out performed the Biotar. Thanks for the info. |
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
Posts: 4748
Location: Cheshire, England
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:50 am Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
| iangreenhalgh1 wrote: |
| I've never done a comparison Phil, sorry. I would be happy to lend you my Biotar if you are curious. |
I had hoped someone would have. Thanks for the offer of the Biotar Ian, not now thanks - maybe later.
Thanks everyone.
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
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Location: Slovenia, EU
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
I've also compared Biotar Pancolar Oreston Primoplan Helios on 5DmkII a while ago: http://forum.mflenses.com/6x-shootout-biotar-pancolar-oreston-primoplan-helios-v6-v7-t31237.html
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Both are sharp, image quality of Biotar is more organic in my opinion, Helios is a bit harsh.
(note that this is also noticeable in Pancolart's comparison)
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mo
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 12:11 am Post subject: |
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mo wrote:
I have the helios 44-2 with 00 serial and the Silver Biotar 2/58 with the knurled front ring (like in the image above),what sort of comparison shots were you thinking of? The glass on both looks to be in the same condition clear no scratches. The coatings seem to slightly different...the Biotar has a slight blue hue and the Helios if I would hazard a guess a slight yellowish/clear hue.
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philslizzy
Joined: 07 Aug 2012
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Location: Cheshire, England
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| Posted: Sat May 25, 2013 12:33 am Post subject: |
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philslizzy wrote:
Thank you. I had searched but I didn't find this.
A Very interesting comparison, there is so little difference between the Biotar and Helios(es). I have several helios lenses and have used a couple of them. Perhaps I should do more! Thanks again!
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