Home

Please support mflenses.com if you need any graphic related work order it from us, click on above banner to order!

SearchSearch MemberlistMemberlist RegisterRegister ProfileProfile Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages Log inLog in

24mm lens comparison: Canon FD SSC, Nikkor, Tamron
View previous topic :: View next topic  


PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:09 am    Post subject: 24mm lens comparison: Canon FD SSC, Nikkor, Tamron Reply with quote

I have three manual focus 24mm prime lenses and three more zooms that have 24mm within their focal range, two of which are AF. For this test, I'm comparing the three primes and, as a benchmark, I'm comparing them to my 18-55mm IS kit lens. They are a Canon FD 24mm f/2.8 SSC, a Nikkor AIs 24mm f/2.8, and a Tamron 24mm f/2.5.

The camera is a 10.1mp EOS XS (1000D). To test the Canon FD 24mm, it requires that I use an FD-EOS adapter. Given this restriction and so that all lenses have a level playing field, I have tested all three using a Fotodiox FD-EOS adapter. Previously I have done numerous tests with the Fotodiox and I have found that, working within its limitations, that there is no perceptable image degradation that occurs from using that adapter with its corrective element. At apertures of f/3.5 and faster, however, the adapter produces a sort of ghosting flare. The Fotodiox is much better at controlling this aberration than another one I have made by Bower. But as you can see from the following photos, at f/2.8, some ghosting flare is evident. But using the Fotodiox also required that I use a glassless Nikon lens to Canon FD adapter, which I happen to own, so I could mount the Nikkor to the Fotodiox.

First thing I noticed was the Fotodiox does not behave as a 1.2x teleconverter. It behaves as a 1.25x teleconverter. So that means a 24mm lens has an effective focal length of 30.0mm. But with my camera's 1.6x APS-C sensor, this duplicates the angle of view of a 48mm lens on a 35mm camera.

In order for me to put together a test such that it is convenient to evaluate the lenses' performance, it ends up being a lot of work. I have to crop and combine 100% shots, label them, assemble them, post them, and then write about them. I hope it's worth it for you folks. For me, the results were quite interesting, and I think you might find them to be interesting as well.

About the images: the camera was mounted to a stout tripod and Live View was used, both to confirm focus and to pre-release the mirror. The images were recorded raw and converted to .jpgs. Each one is a 100% crop, unless mentioned otherwise, and I've done no post processing of any kind. Those images exhibiting the blooming flare caused by the FD-EOS adapter could have been greatly improved with a bit of Curves adjustment, but I though it better just to show them as they came out of the camera.

First is a cast iron plaque, I guess you'd call it, hanging from an exterior wall of my house. I was set up about 2.5 meters from the plaque when I took the shots. The ghosting flare I mentioned above is quite evident at f/2.8. By f/4 it is mostly gone.






Now, for the Canon EF-S 18-55 IS, which I've used as sort of a reference standard:


Next time people try to convince you that the EF-S 18-55 IS lens is a piece of crap (which happens to me fairly often), just show them this test. That should shut them up.

I have more. Continued in my next post.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, sorry to say, but this is a flawed test and you know it. All it shows is that FD-EOS converter is a piece of crap, which is hardly a revelation. Frankly the wide open IQ that you show might be (perhaps even a lot) worse than uncoated 1937 Leitz Summar with a scratch on front element that I just got. Get the NEX and you will see fundamentally different results. Does your Nikkor with glassless adapter really look like that?


PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, this test just doesn't show what these lenses can do, my SSC 24/2.8 is sharp and clear wide open, if you can take the glass out of the adapter you can at least shoot at a close distance without a coke bottle in the way.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you actually bothered to use the Fotodiox FD-EOS adapter? Have you done comparison tests to determine what sort of image degradation, if any, it is responsible for? I have. If I had found it to degrade IQ other than the flare I mentioned, why would I bother going to all the trouble of these tests?

To convert a Nikon lens to FD mount, no glass is necessary to achieve infinity focus. I mentioned "glassless" in case folks weren't aware of this.

Lend me a NEX and I'll redo the test. No I tell you what -- I'll remove the glass from the Fotodiox, which means macro only, and shoot some more photos. Best I can do with the tools I have at my disposal.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael,

we simply have/had FD 24mm/f2.8 and what you are showing is not even close to it in IQ. If it were only FD showing poor results, then one could think that your copy is not healthy, but since two other decent primes look awful, the only logical conclusion is that Fotodiox coke bottles them.

Quote:
No I tell you what -- I'll remove the glass from the Fotodiox, which means macro only, and shoot some more photos. Best I can do with the tools I have at my disposal.


Yes, that's a much better solution.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting the IS version of the 18-55 is a hell of a lot better than the first version without IS, which is a piece of crap.

I have the Nikkor 2.8/24 and it's a really great lens, I use it on my EOS 450D quite often.

I'd be interested to see the same comparison without glass, what is the max focusing distance for the Canon without it?


PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fermy wrote:
Michael,

we simply have/had FD 24mm/f2.8 and what you are showing is not even close to it in IQ. If it were only FD showing poor results, then one could think that your copy is not healthy, but since two other decent primes look awful, the only logical conclusion is that Fotodiox coke bottles them.


Except for the shots at f/2.8, I doubt seriously it's the Fotodiox. As I mentioned before I have tested it at some length just to find out how it affects images. Have you? I guess I should put together another set of tests using the Fotodiox and post them here.

There were two other factors at play: one was the weather today. Dreary and overcast. A very low-contrast day. The other is the nature of the camera I'm using. It is only 10 mp, but it's the best I have, and it pretty much poops out at magnifications like I'm trying to do.

I was also having a problem mounting the Nikkor to the FD adapter I have. The breechlock ring wouldn't rotate more than a few millimeters. I didn't think much of it until I began examining the photos, at which point I realized that it had severely affected things -- like both focus and contrast. So I gotta do everything over again.

I did decide to shoot some pics without the glass in the Fotodiox, but that raised a whole new set of complications, which I just didn't feel like tackling this late in the evening. I'll have to drag out the tripod, a ring flash, and focusing rail in order to do it right, the latter because it just doesn't matter much whether the focusing collar is set to closest focus or infinity -- the adjustment is too slight. I have to move the lens/camera back and forth and the most minute change will take things from tack sharp to blurry. So obviously, for any sort of serious test, I can't do it hand held, even if I do use a flash to freeze motion. The chance of user error is too great.

At first, I didn't want to shoot macros because I was thinking it would show close focus performance only. Then I realized, once I tried taking a few shots, that even with the lens racked to infinity, the focusing distance was only a few inches. But the point was I had racked the lens to infinity, not closest focus. So even though the images are close ups, the lens doesn't know that. It thinks it's shooting at something at infinity. So keeping that in mind, I can take shots with no glass and they'll still have value. But I'll still have to set up the macro rig to get it done, so it'll have to wait until tomorrow.


Last edited by cooltouch on Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:11 am; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Interesting the IS version of the 18-55 is a hell of a lot better than the first version without IS, which is a piece of crap.

I have the Nikkor 2.8/24 and it's a really great lens, I use it on my EOS 450D quite often.

I'd be interested to see the same comparison without glass, what is the max focusing distance for the Canon without it?


All three of them are about the same -- max distance is about four inches from the front of the lens.

As for the 18-55 IS, it can surprise you. I decided to test out its close-focus ability against my 55mm Micro Nikkor one time and was amazed to see that it held its own very well up against such an excellent optic. Yeah, it's cheap-feeling and plasticky, and yeah, if you drop it, you've probably just written it off. But if one respects its limitations it can do a very good job indeed.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even flawed test does show some differences, however.

Lens comparisons fail (imo) mostly because identical focus is difficult to achieve -- these are very close, except for the first FD@f/2.8. Interesting, the degree of oof of the plant branch in each image gives an additional focus-point check. The branch is mysterious missing from Tamron@f/2.8.


Loss of contrast is evident from use of 1.2X TC.


10.1 effective megapixels, 22.2 x 14.8 mm, 3,888 x 2,592 pixels.
3888 / 22.2 = 175 pixels/mm = ~ 87.5 lpm MAXIMUM (probably closer to 44 lpm in real world use)
Is that enough resolution to show lens resolution differences?


+1 Canon 18-55 VERSION II lens has MUCH better IQ than version I.


The Vivitar 24/2.8 by Tokina was mentioned. I'm liking the Soligor 24/2.8 made by Tokina on FF Canon 5D. I don't know if it is the same (T4 mount) lens...


PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the Hoya HMC 2.8/24, which is the Tokina RMC 2.8/24 rebadged. I thought it was a very good lens, I sold it because I then found a Konica Hexanon 2.8/24 and that is a really stunning lens.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:


There were two other factors at play: one was the weather today. Dreary and overcast. A very low-contrast day. The other is the nature of the camera I'm using. It is only 10 mp, but it's the best I have, and it pretty much poops out at magnifications like I'm trying to do.


Yes, the camera might be an issue. I once had Canon XTi for a dreary day like you describe and the results looked like shit to me. But they looked like shit with a native EF 50mm f1.4 too. The fact that Canon zoom seems to be the same or better than primes tells me that fotodiox is at least partially to blame. Whatever the case, until you get all extra glass out of the system, the results will always be questionable.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 24mm lens comparison: Canon FD SSC, Nikkor, Tamron Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:

The camera is a 10.1mp EOS XS (1000D). To test the Canon FD 24mm, it requires that I use an FD-EOS adapter.


I say retest on a Sony NEX. Wink


PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cooltouch wrote:
Have you actually bothered to use the Fotodiox FD-EOS adapter?


http://photo.net/canon-fd-camera-forum/00ZrHW?start=40

cooltouch wrote:
Have you done comparison tests to determine what sort of image degradation, if any, it is responsible for?


I can certainly say that two copies of the FD 24/2.8 SSC were optically excellent on the NEX-7. Nowhere near the low contrast, diffuse samples you posted. (Note also that the EOS 1000D is already quite forgiving at 10 MP.)

cooltouch wrote:
Lend me a NEX and I'll redo the test.


The problem with optical adapters, you are never really testing the lens alone. Entry level NEXes are around what... 200$ in the US?


PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your hard work but I also think that FD is more better.


PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had all three also, Nikon and Canon was fine really, my Tamron lens was pretty crap at infinity distance.