Identity of these schneider M42 lenses?

[Edgar]

Hi, I have been trying to find some extra information on these lenses but have not managed nothing definite. They have name rings identifying them but there are circumstances that make me question them.
I am talking about the Schneider Xenotar 80mm f2.8 and Curtagon 35mm f2.8. They both come in unusual barrels - very much like those of Carl Zeiss Jena lenses. Google search does not throw up any precedents.
Also serial number on Xenotar is wrong - placing it in 1932 if I am correct.
Are they fakes or Zeiss lenses with homemade name rings?
Here is the link to ebay auction that sold them: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261138037304?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Any help appreciated!
Ed

[Mos6502]

It's pretty weird I think. The "chrome" schneider lenses do look similar to the Zeiss lenses, but those look too similar. I'm also not sure schneider was making the curtagon during the chrome era, at least I have never seen a chrome curtagon. Captain Jack has a chrome Xenon on his website: http://captjack.exaktaphile.com/Schneider%20page.htm you can see how far the resemblance goes yourself.

[Edgar]

I have been comparing them to various chrome lenses of the time but nothing comes as close as Zeiss, which, in fact, to my eye are identical. Looking at the xenotar even the red dots match the Biometar 80mm!
I thought maybe Zeiss Jena helped their colleagues in the post war period and produced a small batch of these lenses for Schneider?
Also I noticed that the writing on Xenotar and Curtagon name rings does not comply with that seen on other copies found on google. E.g. there is no "1:" before the aperture. That could be explained if it was made by someone incompetent at these things - no google to check things before war !

[danfromm]

Bizarre.

Unless I've gone blind and the Firefox search function has broken no such lens is mentioned in Schneider's archive. See http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/archiv/archiv.htm The VM also doesn't mention any Xenotar mounted up for a 35 mm camera. And the Xenotar brochure on cameraeccentric.com (http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/schneider_10.html), also shown at https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/xenotar/ but inaccessible there doesn't mention it either.

f/2.8 Xenotars seem to have been mounted for medium format (80/2.8, 100/2.8 ), large format (150/2.8 ) and cine (150/2.8 ). There may have been at least two 80/2.8ers, an early one that fits in a Compur #0 and a later one that was sold in a Compur #1; the difference between the two may be entirely mechanical.

The mystery lens' s/n would just be possible (1957) if it had lost its last digit. The engraving style, allowing for how soft the image in the listing is, matches my horrid little 80/2.8 Xenotar's but the engraving for speed and focal length doesn't. Mine, s/n 6541676 and on Compur #0, reads 1:2.8/80, not 2.8/80.

Funny that two posters should have mentioned CZJ (DDR). I don't know whether their Biometars are knockoffs of some version of the CZ (BRD) f/2.8 Planar (or vice versa). I have in hand an 80/2.8 Planar that is not at all like my little 80/2.8 Xenotar; the Planar's outer elements are much larger.

Can anyone document Schneider's having bought in lenses from CZJ (DDR) at any time and especially in 1957?

[iangreenhalgh1]

Biometar 2.8/80 for P6 is 5 elements. I know the Planar 2.8 for Rolleiflex is 5 elements too, but I think the Planar 2.8/80 for Hasselblad is 6 elements.

[IAZA]

[iangreenhalgh1]

Maybe those are Jena lenses but they replaced the name rings after importing them to the west for some reason.