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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:56 am Post subject: Sonnar 1:2 f/8,5 cm T Carl Zeiss Jena 1947 |
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Orio wrote:
Description:
Lens for Contax I/II/III rangefinders.
First built in 1933, last production batch dated 1949. This copy is a Jena copy from 1947, one of the first post-war copies, and it's T coated.
The post-war Eastern (Jena) copies are faithful to the original lens design. The post-war Western copies (Oberkochen) feature
a slightly modified optical scheme, that was later inherited by the Contarex SLR version of the lens.
The 2/85 Sonnar became a very famous lens since the beginning for the speed and the quality of the out-of-focus blur.
It's been one of the most counterfeited Zeiss lenses.
My copy (will replace image soon with my own image):
Short review:
The lens lives up to it's reputation. Of course it's a pre-war lens design and it shows the typical pre-war fast Sonnar characteristics
(strong macro-contrast; residual spherical aberration at wide open which tones the contrast down and adds some glow to the image;
excellent resolvance around f/5.6 and f/8 ). The T coating is single layer and it does not prevent the lens from flaring when image
is framed near the sunlight, however if the sun stays out of the frame even slightly, the flaring happens only with the lens wide open.
Stopping the lens down has the same consequence as using a lens hood: the resulting image is neatly contrasted. Obviously the
sun rays have an easier entrance at the edges of the glass, causing parasite inner reflections that can not enter when the iris is
even slightly closed. Wide open, the lens still has good resolvance, but lower micro-contrast (due to spherical aberration). The result
is an image that is detailed but smooth, optimal for portrait work. Stopped down, the lens delivers aggressive performance, good
for sports and landscapes. Under these respects, the Sonnar shows the same characteristics of it's "bastard" son, the Jupiter-9.
Where the original and the copy may differ, it's at the bokeh. Both are smooth and pleasing when no highlights are present, whereas
the Sonnar out of focus highlights are probably less edgy and more pleasing than those of the Jupiter-9 (a direct comparison
is scheduled). This appears to be a common characteristics in the relationship between the original Zeiss lenses and their Soviet
clones: the same circumstance happens with the 2/58 Biotar and the Helios-44. Evidently the Soviets (for military reasons?) did
choose to over-correct their lenses, making them slightly sharper than the Zeiss originals at the expense of the organic image quality.
Samples (on Leica M9 - I will add B&W film samples in the upcoming days):
#1 - wide open, displaying the delicious image blur quality that this lens is deservedly famous for
#2 - stopped down
100% detail crop of previous image
#3 - stopped down
100% detail crop of previous image
#4 - stopped down
100% detail crop of previous image
100% detail crop of previous image (note the moiré on the guys' clothes)
#5 - wide open
#6 - slightly stopped down (compare with following)
#7 - wide open
#8 - wide open (compare with following)
#9 - stopped down
#10 - wide open (compare with following)
#11 - slightly stopped down
#12 - wide open (compare with following)
#13 - stopped down
#14 - stopped down (compare with following)
#15 - wide open
#16 - wide open (compare with following)
#17 - stopped down
#18 - stopped down around f/8 (compare with the following two)
#19 - wide open
#20 - slightly stopped down (around f/3.5)
100% detail crop of the stopped down image (#18 )
#21 - wide open
_________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
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danikatia
Joined: 13 Nov 2009 Posts: 653 Location: Cernobbio Italy
Expire: 2013-10-26
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:25 am Post subject: |
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danikatia wrote:
Outstanding! _________________ Daniele |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:47 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
It looks better than my 1967 LZOS made J9. I've tried some Zeiss rf lenses such as pre-war Sonnar 1.5/50 uncoated, pre-war Triotar 4/85 uncoated, prewar Sonnar 2/50 uncoated collapsible, postwar Zeiss-Opton Sonnar 4/135. I've also tried a lot of the Russian copies - four J8s, three J12s, four J11s, a J9. My overall opinion is not that the Russians are sharper, the Zeiss lenses I've tried are at least equal in sharpness imho.
That's just rf lenses, SLR lenses, well I have a 00 serial Helios 44-2 that is very sharp indeed and sharper than my Biotar 2/58 T and I had a J11A 4/135 in M42 that was sharper than my Zeiss Sonnar 3.5/135 zebra in exakta, but I haven't tried enough Zeiss or Russian SLR lenses to conclude much.
The Russians did have to recalculate the lenses to some extent due to the different glasses available to them, maybe this is why there are some variations? My experience so far with RF lenses is that the character is very much the same between the original and the copies (a J8 has the same character as the Sonnar 2/50 and the J11 has the same character as the Sonnar 4/135, but the originals tend to have slightly cooler colours, slightly sharper and more pop(microcontrast?).
I was very happy with my J8, J9, J11, J12 for my Kiev until I tried the Zeiss originals, I'm still happy with the Russians, they are great lenses, but some of the Zeiss like the Opton Sonnar 4/135 were better and now I can never look at the results from my very nice 1957 J11 quite the same again - I long for a Zeiss original to replace it.
Sorry for the slightly rambling post but Kiev/Contax lenses are my passion at the moment, I have a nice set of Russians but am only starting to collect Zeiss, it's a slippery slope... _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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scsambrook
Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 2167 Location: Glasgow Scotland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:34 am Post subject: |
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scsambrook wrote:
Yes indeed, it looks very good. Perhaps back in the 1950s (when I started taking pictures) we really didn't know how good our lenses actually were. No pxel-peeping then. We certainly wouldn't ever have dreamed of using an f2 lens at full aperture in brilliant sunshine, instead we opened them up when the light had gone . . . how fashions change, eh?
It would be interesting to see some "available light" shots - more on the lines of your first photo - ! _________________ Stephen
Equipment: Pentax DSLR for casual shooting, Lumix G1 and Fuji XE-1 for playing with old lenses, and Leica M8 because I still like the optical rangefinder system. |
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hoanpham
Joined: 31 Jan 2011 Posts: 2575
Expire: 2015-01-18
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:57 am Post subject: |
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hoanpham wrote:
I like the light of your #1 photo very much. _________________ La migliore cura di LBA � imparare una nuova lingua. Le meilleur rem�de de LBA est d'apprendre une nouvelle langue. La mejor cura del LBA es aprender una nueva lengua. |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
@Ian: some soviet lenses like the Jupiter-8 or the Jupiter-3 seem really close to the Zeiss lenses, at least in my personal experience.
@scsambrook: I took photos on film, but it was daylight, and very bright. I'm sure the lens will do great in twilight. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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poilu
Joined: 26 Aug 2007 Posts: 10469 Location: Greece
Expire: 2019-08-29
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:04 am Post subject: |
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poilu wrote:
impressive quality on the M9! how do you focus this lens, is it rangefinder coupled ? _________________ T* |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:09 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
poilu wrote: |
impressive quality on the M9! how do you focus this lens, is it rangefinder coupled ? |
Yes, the adapter by Amedeo has coupling. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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56 DIN
Joined: 24 Apr 2010 Posts: 1656 Location: Germany Erbach /ODW
Expire: 2021-11-18
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:10 am Post subject: |
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56 DIN wrote:
congrat Orio to this lens
pic no 1 is my absolute fav and i hope we will see some of this type from festivals in your area ( ...am waiting... )
regarding the bokeh in no 6 and 7, i find the 6 as whole picture is much better _________________ Thomas
NEX & manual lenses
Nikon & manual lenses |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Thanks Thomas
I can not use this lens in festivals, because it's a pain to focus it on the M9 rangefinder. Impossible to see well.
I never use lenses longer than 50mm on a rangefinder. This lens is an exception because it was an occasion that
I did not want to miss. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57840 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2021-11-18
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Beuatiful, clean, clear images , congrats!! _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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scsambrook
Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 2167 Location: Glasgow Scotland
Expire: 2011-11-18
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:43 am Post subject: |
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scsambrook wrote:
Orio wrote: |
Thanks Thomas
I can not use this lens in festivals, because it's a pain to focus it on the M9 rangefinder. Impossible to see well.
I never use lenses longer than 50mm on a rangefinder . . . |
Arrrrggghhh Such heresies ! If the Rangefinder-Ninjas from Leica User Forum hear of this, they will surely come and visit you with a view to some "attitude adjustment" _________________ Stephen
Equipment: Pentax DSLR for casual shooting, Lumix G1 and Fuji XE-1 for playing with old lenses, and Leica M8 because I still like the optical rangefinder system. |
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 16499 Location: Weinheim, Germany
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
Guess you should be very happy with it Orio! Really looks like a keeper to me! _________________ Klaus - Admin
"S'il vient a point, me souviendra" [Thomas Bohier (1460-1523)]
http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums my albums using various lenses
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV BLOG
http://www.travelmeetsfood.com/blog Food + Travel BLOG
https://galeriafotografia.com Architecture + Drone photography
Currently most FAV lens(es):
X80QF f3.2/80mm
Hypergon f11/26mm
ELCAN UV f5.6/52mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f4/60mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f2/62mm
Lomo Уфар-12 f2.5/41mm
Lomo Зуфар-2 f4.0/350mm
Lomo ZIKAR-1A f1.2/100mm
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Zeiss UV-Sonnar f4.3/105mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f1.8/45mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f4.1/94mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f2.8/100mm
Steinheil Quarzobjektiv f1.8/50mm
Pentax Quartz Takumar f3.5/85mm
Carl Zeiss Jena UV-Objektiv f4/60mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha II f1.1/90mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha I f2.8/200mm
COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
COASTAL OPTICS f4.5/105mm UV-Micro-Apo
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
Rodenstock UV-Rodagon f5.6/60mm + 105mm + 150mm
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Oreste
Joined: 08 Sep 2012 Posts: 451
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Oreste wrote:
scsambrook wrote: |
Orio wrote: |
Thanks Thomas
I can not use this lens in festivals, because it's a pain to focus it on the M9 rangefinder. Impossible to see well.
I never use lenses longer than 50mm on a rangefinder . . . |
Arrrrggghhh Such heresies ! If the Rangefinder-Ninjas from Leica User Forum hear of this, they will surely come and visit you with a view to some "attitude adjustment" |
I do not understand rangefinder enthusiasm. I am a reflex guy. |
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
Orio wrote: |
@Ian: some soviet lenses like the Jupiter-8 or the Jupiter-3 seem really close to the Zeiss lenses, at least in my personal experience.
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I agree, J11 is really close to the Sonnar 135 too. I've never had the opportunity to try a Biogon 35 but I suspect the J12 is close too.
I do know that after trying the Opton Sonnar 4/135 and Jena Sonnar 2/50 I decided I had to collect Zeiss for Contax.
The difference in IQ and build quality/finish between the Zeiss and Russians isn't large but once I had used and handled the Zeiss, that little difference did matter to me. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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Misha_M
Joined: 08 Oct 2012 Posts: 178
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Misha_M wrote:
Cool photos, beautiful lens... I especially liked how still the whiter subjects you shot can stand _________________ Tair 11 133 f/2.8 1958
Jupiter 9 85 f/2 1959
Helios 44M 58 f/2 1978
Helios 44-2 58 f/2 1977
Helios 44 (13 blades) 1959
Helios 77M4 50 f/1.8
Zenitar-M 50 f/1.7 1986
Industar-61 L\Z 50 f/2.8
Helios 40-2, 85 f/1.5 1974 |
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skida
Joined: 02 Mar 2012 Posts: 1826 Location: North East England
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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skida wrote:
Very impressive performance by the photographer and the lens. |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:05 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Camillo (Agfapan 100).
Not beautiful like Krisztina, but only model available
#1
#2
_________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57840 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2021-11-18
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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:15 am Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
[quote="Orio"]Camillo (Agfapan 100).
Not beautiful like Krisztina, but only model available
Come on she is pretty just like Krisztina, perhaps miss GYM a bit _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:18 am Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Attila wrote: |
Come on she is pretty just like Krisztina, perhaps miss GYM a bit |
he does not like exercise, he prefers ready food. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57840 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2021-11-18
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Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:22 am Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Orio wrote: |
Attila wrote: |
Come on she is pretty just like Krisztina, perhaps miss GYM a bit |
he does not like exercise, he prefers ready food. |
just like we are damn it _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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