Normal-wdie or wide lens suggestion

[pach]

Hello everybody!

I'm looking to buy my first manual lens, and after looking at various threads here and pages around the web + ebay prices, I made the list below. Each of the lenses below have been liked/recommended by atleast a few somewhere in the inter-webs, and their prices are pretty close to each other too upto $100, which is my budget.

But as I couldn't really make out which are the better ones among these, I haven't been able to decide on one. I am from India, and ebay is my only practical source for lenses. And in ebay for most of the lenses, the shipping costs will be around $35 which makes the total cost pretty high for me when converted to local currency. So can't really buy multiple lenses and then decide which is better. Atleast not for now.

Here are the lenses which made my shortlist: Which lens

. Tokina RMC 28 2.8 -> +3

. Hoya HMC 28 2.8 -> +1

. Kenlock McTor 28mm 2.8 -> +2

. Pentacon 30mm 3.5 -> +2

. Super Paragon 24mm/28mm -> +1

. Yashica ML 28 2.8 -> +1

. Clubman MC 24mm 2.8 -> +1

. Zuiko 28 2.8 -> +1

. Tamron Adaptall-II 24 2.5 -> +1

. Clubman MC 28mm 2.8 -> +0.5

. Tamron Adaptall-II 28 2.5 -> +1 (or rather +0.5)

. Asahi Pentax-M SMC 28 2.8

. Zuiko 28 3.5

Any others? (I have added the +1, +2 just to count the recommendations here, please don't be offended. And do share your opinion )

Would you tell me which would you pick among these? Or even better, arrange them in the order of your preference? I know its actually a bit stupid to ask which is THE best among these, as I doubt if anyone has used all of these lenses. But anyway, I am hoping I will get some guidance.

My Requirements:

1. I want to start from a wide or atleast a normal-wide lens, as I will be using it on a crop body (EOS 600D) and shooting a mix of street + nature.

2.I have listed only the 28s here, but I would even be okay to go with a lens which is a bit narrower or wider and slightly costlier, say upto $120, as long as it gives a sensible price/performance.

3. Also planning on doing a lot of video. For HDSLR video, its suggested that Contrast/Pop/Color rendering/Speed of lens/IQ matters much more than Sharpness.

4. So great color/pop/contrast with okay sharpness I guess.

Also please do mention if you have any other lens suggestions.

Thanks,
pach

[Minolfan]

[Excalibur]

Konica Hexanon 28mm
Canon FD and FDn 28mm

Both VG lenses and still going at a reasonable price.

[heartcat]

From your list, the only one I've used is the RMC Tokina 28mm 2.8. I absolutely love that lens.

I did have a Takumar 28mm 3.5 that I never warmed up to and sold, and an Optomax 28mm 2.8 that was good for a paperweight but not much else.

The Tokina is perhaps my favourite lens. I use it on a 50D. It is sharp from wide open, sharp through infinity, easy to focus, close focusing and has beautiful natural colour straight out of the camera. I find my photos taken with this lens need minimal post processing, which is good for me because I'm not very adept at editing. Even significant crops retain their sharpness and detail, it's really quite amazing.

I lucked out and picked mine up for $11 on ebay but if something happened to it I'd pay 20x that amount to replace it if I had to. It is very versatile and I use it for portraits, landscapes, food photography and nature shots. I recommend it highly every chance I get.

Here are a few samples:











This one was a significant crop.

[eddieitman]

I second the Kenlock MC TOR a good lens,
The Konicas are no good to you on Canon,
Kiron 28mm F2 (not cheap) fantastic lens.
The Tokina 28mm is a fantastic lens i have one,
The pentacon 30mm is also very good
Super Paragon 24mm or 28mm is also excellent and can be had for very little
As for a source of lenses keep an eye on Rockycameras, his world wide postage on a lens is between £7.00 -£9.00 depending on weight and his prices are better than ebay mostly.
(But a lot of people have been unhappy with Rocky, I have bought a lot from him and generally all has been ok as they say buyer beware )

[pach]

@Minolfan:
Thanks Minolfan, I'll keep the Kenlock 28/8 in mind before putting down my money. I found two copies at bay priced around $50, so its in similar price league as most others in the list. But I'll keep a good watch. (Looked at your seriously posing Shadow. Excellent capture, love the way colors are rendered and the sharpness. And Shadow!

@Excalibur:
Thanks for the suggestion Excalibur. I have been told Hexanon AR lenses cannot be used on Canon EOS bodies, are they available in any other mounts too? And I think to use an FD lens on EOS, an adapter with an extra glass flange will have to be used, which probably will degrade the overall quality by a good measure.

@heartcat
Thanks heartcat. Well actually, Tokina RMC 28/2.8 was one of the first lenses which made my list because of your posts here and pictures at flickr. I have browsed through them all, seen your replies at flickr too, and I think you must have one extremely excellent copy of the lens. If you ever plan on selling it or giving it away, remember that I am going to be the first candidate. Those pictures are divine + you live in an extremely beautiful part of the world.

I have a question about your tokina copy. From what I found out, there were two versions of the RMC 28/2.8 lens - supposedly differentiated just as version I and II, can you tell me which is yours? I have sent you a PM with pictures of the two lenses, can you check the PM out and let me know please?

-pach

[ManualFocus-G]

I wouldn't recommend Rockycameras if you are buying from abroad. If something goes wrong (and many of us have been burnt) then it will cost you to send it back again.

From the options mentioned, you CANNOT use the Canon FD or Konica lenses on you Canon DSLR. The Pentacon Prakticar also cannot be used at infinity unless you want to start cutting bits off it (not recommended).

For street shooting on a 1.6x crop DSLR, I would recommend a lens with a focal length of around 24mm, which will equate to about 39mm in full frame terms. However, there's not too many cheap options in that range. The Tamron Adaptall-2 24/2.5 is OK but a bit soft in the corners (probably OK for street stuff).

If you are moving towards something at the 28mm end (more of a 45mm equivalent lens) then there are plenty options, although the crop will be tighter. I would definitely recommend the Yashica ML 28/2.8 which is very sharp and has some nice pop. The Tamron Adaptall-2 28/2.5 is a solid performer although there is nothing special about the rendering, the same goes for the original Tamron Adaptall 28/2.8.

[SonicScot]

I have both the Tokina 28/2.8 and the above mentioned Pentacon 30/3.5 and I love them both.

[ManualFocus-G]

I've actually got a spare Pentacon 30/3.5 here you can have for $40.00 It won't be very wide though...

[pdccameras]

You have rec'd some wonderful advice. If you don't mind going a little longer in focal length, ie. 35mm (52mm on a crop body), you might consider the 35mm f/3.5 Asahi Super Takumar. It' s a high quality and compact wide normal, ideal for street photography, etc. At f/3.5 it may be too slow for your needs, but here is my past post on this lens: http://forum.mflenses.com/35mm-f-3-5-super-takumar-t42340,highlight,%2B35mm.html . Paul

[DigiChromeEd]

I have six of the lenses on your list. In my opinion the best is the Zuiko 2.8/28 and Tokina/Hoya 2.8/28 (the Tokina and Hoya are essentially the same lens as both are manufactured by Tokina - I can't see any difference in the results they produce). The Clubman 28mm is also excellent (also found under the Ensinor label).

[Jethro Tull]

The Tokina 28mm is a fine lens
if you have anything leftover after buying the wide lens then get yourself a cheap n cheerful Helios 44-2 58mm, suprisingly sharp/lovely colour and makes a great video lens! bet 90% of people on here have owned or used a Helios in the past and i always make sure i have one in the kit bag

[DigiChromeEd]

[pach]

Added ratings to the main list - just based on the number of recommendations/opinions. Hope it wont offend anyone, will take it off soon.

@eddieitman:
Thanks eddieitman, added the Pentacon and Super Paragon to the list. 28mm Super Paragons are listed at around $60, and 24s are a bit more, will wait some more. I had looked at the prices for which Kiron f2s were sold before, and current list prices which are around $140. I don't think I should be spending so much for now, as some of my savings will go into buying some hdslr video gear. Btw Rocky's site has listed some lenses like Tamron 24/2.5 at decent price, I'll keep it as a last resort if I am not going for 'bay.

@ManualFocus-G:
I didn't know Prakticars couldn't focus to infinity without hacking, out of the list, and Tamron 24/2.5 has been added to the list. About Tamron 2.5/24, if used on a crop sensor body, don't you think the overall performance will be much better than when its on a FF? I will have to look up some comparison samples in the web between FF and crop performance for this lens.

Btw I have read some flickr/yashica mforum reviews saying lots of great things about Yashica ML 28/2.8, some comparing it to a particular Zeiss. But didn't see much about it here in mflenses, so I was a bit doubtful whether if its really that good. Any idea how it compares with other 28s here or care to compare to any other lens in general? (I know this is asking for too much, sorry couldn't hold back )

@SonicScot: Thanks SonicScot, votes/list updated.

@pdccameras: I knew a takumar would eventually be brought up in the thread. I kept it out of the list as most of the copies I found in ebay were above $100, and the 3.5 scared me off on top of the price. I'll add it to the list for now, thanks for the suggestion.

@DigiChromeEd: I was wondering why Zuikos haven't been discussed much so far. I had actually read some rave reviews about Zuiko at Flickr and other sites. But most of the reviews rated Zuiko 28/3.5 much higher than 28/2.8, and even 28/2, mentioning the two faster lenses were too soft compared to the 3.5 variant. But again, the 3.5 f number had put me in a dilemma. But I would anyday pick a faster lens, if the compromise in sharpness is not that high. Have you had a chance to compare the 2.8 with any other 28mm zuikos?

And I had taken the Clubman/Ensinor suggestion from your previous posts here in mflenses - sounding like a broken record posts! I haven't been able to find a good copy of the 24mm Clubman/Ensinor which seems to be the best of Ensinors some great pictures here. But there are some 28/2.8s, so will have to think fast/hard. Thanks for the suggestion.

About the Hoya HMC and Tokina RMC. Pbase has listed these two lenses separately, with a better rating for the Tokina RMC. Both links added below - So I thought probably there were some differences between the two lenses, and Tokina variant was a slightly better than Hoya, it might have been copy variance though.
Links: Tokina Hoya

Also it intrigues me that Pentax-M 28/2.8 is rated slightly better than Tokina at Pbase. But haven't seen many good things about it here. But anyway the rating presented are just technical figures, so in the real world results might differ I guess.

@Jethro Tull: The Russian tank lens! Its already in the confirmed list in my head. A future must buy That's the lens which pulled me towards the wonderful world of MF lenses. The helios will still cost me some decent money, but heck, I have to get it anyway.

A bit of Off topic back story: I was looking at some made-with-50mm videos at Ytube, and accidentally bumped into a video with a lot of fuzzy bokeh and dreamy colors. I dug some more and turns out people are using vintage, 40+ year old, Russian(which must be awesome! - I have a penchant for everything Russian) lenses on their digital cameras. I was hooked. This was about 8 months ago, guess I have a long way to go.

[pdccameras]

Hi Pach,

Don't be scared away from the 35 f/3.5 Super Takumar on price. First, If you use a lens hood you won't see much difference between the more expensive SMC (Super Multi Coated) version and the Super Takumar version. I use the single coated version. Second, the price is still around $30 - $40 US on EBay. People usually go for this lens' faster and more expensive older brother, the 35mm f/2, so the price of the f/3.5 hasn't jumped through the roof yet.

Good hunting!

Paul

[Lena]

Does Hoya exist in Nikon mount? ( Tokinas do from what I've seen ).

[DigiChromeEd]

[ManualFocus-G]

The Adaptall-2 24/2.5 is worse on full frame where the corners show up quite badly (in my experience with two copies). It was still better than the Hoya 24/2.8 though (which is a Tokina lens by all accounts) and also found as a Vivitar. If you had the money, I would recommend the Nikkor Ais 24/2.8 the most...it's the best 24mm lens I've tried and I sold all others as a result.

As for the Yashica ML 28/2.8, it's the third best 28mm lens I've tried behind the Carl Zeiss Distagon 28/2.8 (Contax/Yashica mount) and Nikkor 28/2.

[heartcat]

Thank you, Pach, for the nice words about my photos and for the compliment about the area of Canada in which I live. I do love it here.

I replied to your message, and hope I did it right (never sent a message before). In case it doesn't go through, the lens that I have is the one with the green printing on the front.

If you do decide to get an RMC Tokina 28mm 2.8 I hope it turns out to perform as nicely as the copy that I have. Whatever lens you end up with, I hope you love it and enjoy your foray into the manual focus lens world!

[Minolfan]

[norman j shearer]

[clckristians]

I agree with them who praise Yashica ML 28 f/2.8. Excellent sharpness compared to my Super-Takumar 28 f/3.5 and Hoya HMC Wide-Auto 28 f/2.8. But still a bit less than Canon EF 28mm f/1.8 @ 2.8. (Actually I regret that I sold it some time ago.)
Although flare on Yashica is an issue compared to Super-Takumar, unfortunately Hoya has even worse flare. So hood is a must. Regarding contrast Yashica and Super-Tak are close, Hoya bit behind. (and again they couldn't beat Canon EF 28mm..)

Pentacon 30mm - maybe (never had one), but with bad (soft even stopped down) performance of Pentacon auto 29mm f/2.8 I was surprised. Maybe mine copy was a lemon.

Well, I'm looking myself Zuiko 28mm (heard - they are marvelous) for my Olympus OM1. But these days they are quite expensive.

And by the way, if you are going to shoot video a lot you may consider Russian Mir 20mm f3.5 or CZJ Flektogon 20mm f2.8 or f4 - both are great for video (but damn expensive). Friend of mine has Mir 20 on Nikon. I was surprised about quality of shots with this lens. But you should be aware of flaring. Might be an issue.

And here is mine video lens set - Super-Takumar 28mm f/3.5, Super-Takumar 55mm f/1.8, Jupiter 9 85mm f/2, Jupiter37A MC 135mm f/3.5, Super-Takumar 200mm f/4, sometimes for more creamy background I'm using Helios 44-2 58mm f/2. But for wide angle shots I'm using Tokina AT-X Pro 11-16mm f/2.8. Still looking for Super-Takumar or Zuiko 35mm.

[Attila]

[diddy]

I had both Hoya (Tokina) 24mm and 28mm lenses. I found that they quite lacked in contrast. I prefer lenses that give good saturated pictures out of the camera instead of having to push the saturation in post processing.

[pach]

Thank you all! Lots of great suggestions - which makes things difficult.

1. If I put together the suggestions here, it appears that Zuiko 3.5/28 + SMC Tak 3.5 28 + Yashical ML 28 2.8 + Pentacon 30mm are almost in the same league, and top the list.
2. Ensinor/Clubman/Tokina RMC/Hoya HMC make the next best group only because some copies of these lenses might not have the sharpness of the Zuiko 28/Pentacon 30 or the contrast/colors offered by SMC Tak/Yashica ML 28s. I am not sure where can I place the Kenlock/Super Paragon 28/2.8 glasses, so I'll temporarily keep them with the second group here

I am now leaned a bit towards Yashica ML 28/2.8 and Zuiko 3.5/28. (And Pentacon 30mm too. )

Zuiko 3.5/28 - Sharpness, cheap, (and I have found a seller for $50 shipped )
Yashica ML 2.8/28 - Supposedly better micro-contrast/colors - so nicer pictures/videos straight out of camera. Also half stop faster, so would work slightly better with the primitive viewfinder on my EOS 600D.

Yashica ML costs about $35 more than the Zuiko 28/3.5 at most places I have checked. Maybe I should buy both and later decide for myself? Though that's unlikely considering my current finances. If you have some thoughts, do share.