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Kyoei Super-Acall 3.5/135mm (LTM39)
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:29 am    Post subject: Kyoei Super-Acall 3.5/135mm (LTM39) Reply with quote

Just got this lens for a good price (40€), it seems to have not so much value or at least not so much interest with collectors and/or users and there is not so much information on the net Confused !
It's for sure a beautiful lens, quite sharp and with very nice colors rendering, the bokeh is also very pleasing on my eyes...My exemplar is in very good cosmetic condition but unfortunately, the glass has some haze just under the front element and some scratches inside the lens (no idea how it can happens Confused !) , it's probably affect a bit the IQ of the lens under outside strong light condition, that's too bad and the seller did not mentioned it of course Evil or Very Mad ....
Anyway, here are some quick test shots with the lens mount on D700 (max focus about 1 meter), it perform indeed much better on FF than on the Nex, I don't know why???!!!....and last shot with the lens mount on Nex, all are wide open and with some PP on the curves to increase a bit the contrast:

1/(with one extension ring)


2/ (inside shot)


3/ (@f4 I think!)


4/


5/ (inside shot, on Nex)


and pictures of the lens:





Of course you are welcome to share here your experience and pictures made with this lens....
Thanks for looking Smile


Last edited by pich900 on Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice Wink

Looks like some of the LTM Soligors I have seen?!?

Nothing wrong with the performance, nice bokeh, colours and sharpness Very Happy


PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All shots are beautiful! I suppose that the merit is still yours. not the lens only Wink


PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For all its little "faults", It produces some lovely color and images...the daisy and the rose images are beautiful.
Plus the lens itself looks really nice as well... Cool Laughing


PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mo wrote:
For all its little "faults", It produces some lovely color and images...the daisy and the rose images are beautiful.
Plus the lens itself looks really nice as well... Cool Laughing

Completely agree. Cool


PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nordentro wrote:
Nice Wink

Looks like some of the LTM Soligors I have seen?!?

Nothing wrong with the performance, nice bokeh, colours and sharpness Very Happy


Yes, I believe there were some Kyoei made ltm Soligors.

Performance looks really good. I wonder how good it would be on M4/3.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

walter g wrote:
Nordentro wrote:
Nice Wink

Looks like some of the LTM Soligors I have seen?!?

Nothing wrong with the performance, nice bokeh, colours and sharpness Very Happy


Yes, I believe there were some Kyoei made ltm Soligors.

Performance looks really good. I wonder how good it would be on M4/3.


I would rather have it as Kyoei, than Soligor. I've had several lenses with similar unmentioned faults myself. It can be frustrating when you accept something else, but I've learned that this is a part of the old mf lens game Wink

You should ask for some refund, I always do when it is bigger things not mentioned that can inflect on the performance.

The lens is beautiful, is it small?


PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First thought are... some items or scratches on the back cap, but them are also present in your shot.
I find it interesting what's this??? Wink alien tracks???



PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

izvar wrote:
First thought are... some items or scratches on the back cap, but them are also present in your shot.
I find it interesting what's this??? Wink alien tracks???



+1


PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am more inclined to think this is a Komura, looks pretty similiar to the 135 komura with the ninja stars aperture, the font on the front name plate.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eddieitman wrote:
I am more inclined to think this is a Komura, looks pretty similiar to the 135 komura with the ninja stars aperture, the font on the front name plate.


+1 Komura typography.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all for the com...
Nordentro wrote:

I would rather have it as Kyoei, than Soligor. I've had several lenses with similar unmentioned faults myself. It can be frustrating when you accept something else, but I've learned that this is a part of the old mf lens game Wink

You should ask for some refund, I always do when it is bigger things not mentioned that can inflect on the performance.

The lens is beautiful, is it small?

Well, the seller proposed me to take the lens back with complete refund but I have decided to keep it despite the defects....
here a picture of the lens mount on Nex, not really a small lens...



izvar wrote:
First thought are... some items or scratches on the back cap, but them are also present in your shot.
I find it interesting what's this??? Wink alien tracks???


What you see on the picture of the lens are indeed the scratches inside the lens and I did not noticed it on the results before you showed it Sad ....


PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

do not be sad. the lens performs very good. I think it should be keept anyway. I apologize for my picky eye Wink


PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://portretteur.nl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=89:the-komura-files-kyoei-super-acall-135mm-35&catid=37:lenses&Itemid=58

Looks like it is a Komura then.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

izvar wrote:
do not be sad. the lens performs very good. I think it should be keept anyway. I apologize for my picky eye Wink

I will keep it for sure Very Happy

eddieitman wrote:
http://portretteur.nl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=89:the-komura-files-kyoei-super-acall-135mm-35&catid=37:lenses&Itemid=58

Looks like it is a Komura then.

thanks for the link Wink ...


PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a Komura.
As far as I know Kyoei was an independent lens manufacturer just like Komura was also an independent manufacturer.
And practically -
Kyoei Acall lenses (and the same lenses under other brands) were being made at the same time as Komura branded lenses, and they are quite different in internal details and construction. I.e., for example I have SLR mount preset Kyoei 135/3.5 and Komura 135/3.5 that are not at all similar. There is no continuity that I can see between the early 1960's Komura product line that I know of and the late-period 1960's Kyoei line (as collected by member Univer among others).


PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Luis for the extra information....what I would like to know is the year of production, anybody has an idea how I can know that!?


PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for telling the date of production of Kyoei and Komura lenses - I know no way other than guesses.
The essential online resource for Komura is the camera eccentric site, he has a Komura catalog from (I think) the late 1960's

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/komura_1.html

Komura was small and didn't seem to have changed their product line frequently; in fact almost all known Komura lenses, branded as Komura, are in this quite remarkable catalog, with variants of course. The major exceptions are a late (1970's) line of lenses, mostly zooms, with a unique interchangeable mount. Other than those, while I wouldn't be surprised to find a Komura product not in this catalog, these would be quite rare.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again for the link...


PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a 135mm Super Acall for a short while. It was a Leica mount M39 lens, I believe a tele-Sonnar type, from the mid 1950s. Back then, many Japanese companies made 135mm lenses for rangefinders. I found the Canon M39 135/3.5 was sharper.



Here are some pictures taken with it on a G1 micro 4/3.





PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's an attractive piece of hardware and I like the results, really clean. There's one on eBay now for $130 USD. Did this thread tip them off? Smile


PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: What adapter for Nikon? Reply with quote

I know this thread has been around a while, but hopefully someone catches this post.

I am thinking of picking up one of these and wondered what converter I might need for a Nikon D100. Did I read Leica M39 correctly?

Is there a section on this forum where close-ups of all the mount types are shown to help identify them?

Sorry for all the questions. Just discovering Manual Focus on DSLRs and learning as much as I can.


PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jeff

Sadly, you can't use an M39 lens on a Nikon DSLR, you could mount it, but it would only focus at max, a couple of metres away.

This is because the film/sensor to lens distance forM39 is 28.8mm and for a Nikon it's 46.something.

You need a mirrorless camera like a Sony NEX to use M39, sorry.

Your best bet for a manual 135mm for your Nikon is one of the old Nikkor 2.8/135s, they are plentiful and pretty cheap.


PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

frenched wrote:
That's an attractive piece of hardware and I like the results, really clean. There's one on eBay now for $130 USD. Did this thread tip them off? Smile


Don't think so. I bought one off eBay a couple years ago. I paid much less than $130 for it, but that was because I was patient and found an auction. I think I ended up paying about $50 for it.

Back in about 1983 or so, I bought a Canon IVsb rangefinder that had this very lens attached to it. I think I paid $75 for everything. I kept the pair for years, finally selling them in 1990 or so. A sale I've regretted ever since. A few years ago, I bought another Canon rf, and then a couple years ago, I bought back the Kyoei. This time, they ain't going anywhere.

When I began searching for a replacement Kyoei on eBay, I was surprised at how much people were asking for them. I can clearly recall that, back in the 80s and 90s, the Kyoei was regarded as barely OK. Back then, Canon's rangefinder optics were also considered to be just OK as well. My how times have changed.

My new Kyoei 135mm Super Acall came with both original caps, a velvet lined box and a catalog showing their current products. The catalog has no date, but it shows a number of lenses for 35mm SLRs, such as Pentax, Exacta, Pentacon, Topcon, and Miranda. So I'm guessing it probably dates to the early 1960s. It's funny -- the only Kyoei lenses I've ever seen listed on eBay have always been 135mm -- but Kyoei made everything from 35mm to 500mm, according to this catalog.


PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They certainly did make a range of lenses, though the 135's in whatever mount are the most common.

Easier to find than Kyoei branded lenses are the earliest Petri Orikkor presets, which were the Kyoei SLR lenses. 35, 105. 135/3.5 180/3.5 and 500/8. Only the 500 is rare.

I have found the 105. 135, 180 and 35/3.5 in a couple of other brands, like Soligor.
The 135/2.8 and 250/4.5 are seen mainly in Kyoei branding but are quite rare under any name.

You will find the Kyoei LTM 35/3.5 without too much trouble but the price is always rather high. This may be the most expensive Kyoei around.

All are quite good of their type.

As for a 135 for a Nikon body, I second the choice of a Nikkor-Q 135/2.8. This is a really excellent lens and superbly well made. Very large and heavy for its type but thats often a good thing IMHO.