URGENT TIME SENSITIVE! Vivitar Series 1

[maldaye]

Hi,

I am watching two auction both ending very close to each other (like within 30 minutes).

One for Vivitar Series 1 70-210mm and it is the Kiron version ($30) clean front element
One for Vivitar Series 1 70-210 mm and it is the Komine version ($60) - but it has faint scratches on the front element.

What should I chose?

[Oldhand]

One for Vivitar Series 1 70-210mm and it is the Kiron version ($30) clean front element

[Attila]

This lens got limited 'buzz' under years, I remember some people say Komine is better, I had Kiron , it's okay, but I didn't use it due weight size and I am not fond of zooms.

[Oldhand]

There is little between them.
Clean front element very important
OH

[Pancolart]

I'd rather have the one that is clean inside.

[my_photography]

Clean front element for me too

[maldaye]

[Oldhand]

[fermy]

Well, I have both, don't use them enough due to weight and size. My impressions from the lenses were that they play in the same league. My Komine is very clean, Kiron has some weird small dots on the rear element, does not look like fungus, but I have no idea what it is.

Which brings me to the point of scratches and other imperfections. Some of my favorite lenses are scratched, have separation, cleaning marks, etc. In principle, every lens is a lottery to some extent. Nobody is able to predict whether this Komine version v scratches will work for you better than that Kiron version or vice versa, it depends on the individual copies. However, scratches do affect resale value somewhat. Therefore, all other things being equal, I would have chosen the cheaper lens without imperfections over a more expensive lens with cleaning marks. For example, I have listed both lenses for sale and priced Komine @ 45 Euros and Kiron with spots @ 25 Euros, even though I believe the IQ from both is about the same.

However, all things are never equal. For example, the weight of the words "it does not affect image quality" from a salesman, is not the same as the weight of those words coming from someone trustworthy who uses the lens, etc.

[Oldhand]

[cooltouch]

My favorite is the 2nd version, made by Tokina. It's a bit better, resolution-wise than the 1st version, made by Kiron, plus it's smaller and a lot lighter. The Tokina version is almost as sharp as the 3rd version, made by Komine. The Komine achieves slightly better resolution numbers by sacrificing half a stop at 200mm. I'd just as soon have a zoom with a constant f/3.5 aperture wide open, which makes things less complicated when I'm shooting with a manual exposure camera.

As for the faint scratches, allow me to pass along a bit of experience here. Some years back, I bought a well-used Nikon 180mm f/2.8 ED from a press photographer. It had a bad gouge in the front element, about 1cm x 0.5cm in size. This guy assured me that it didn't affect the images, but he was selling it for so cheap that I couldn't say no. So I bought it and proceeded to use it. A lot. That lens was, at the time, the sharpest optic I owned. It took amazing good photos. So all I can say is, if the front lens has some very light scratches, all they really amount to is a good discount in the price.

[Andrew G.]

Yes.. the longer the focal length, the less front element scratches and imperfections matter. What one should really be concerned about are rear element scratches/imperfections, as they will definitely affect the image, no matter what the focal length may be.

[parabellumfoto]

For what it is worth I will share some information.

A few days ago I saw a listing for a new/old stock Series 1 VIVITAR 70-210 (or something close to that) Zoom.

So essentially it's brand new!

I can't find the link anymore but it's an Ebay listing from the US with a starting bid at $36 or so.

If that listing is still out there, it may be better to wait. At the very least take a few minutes to search on Ebay and try to locate the listing. I already have a zoom so I didn't save the link.

EBay is a juggling act. Sometimes you rush to secure a bargain and only after you have committed your funds, a MUCH BETTER opportunity presents itself.

If only I had a dollar every time this has happened to me.

[maldaye]

I ended up losing the cheaper auction (the $36) because my internet died 2 minutes before the auction ended. I only bid last 15 seconds. The fellow with the scratched Komine is offering his still at a discount and I am currently watching a Kino listing that has Komine serial number (apparently he didn't know it was Komine) that is super clean. I thought about the Tokina as well due to smaller size and consant apartue, but I like the 2.8 on Komine and increased sharpness.

Here is the link to the scratched one:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Vivitar-Series-I-70mm-120mm-F-2-8-Macro-Lens-for-Nikon-AIS-Mount-/130936181464?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item1e7c6792d8&_uhb=1

[iangreenhalgh1]

I had the Tokina made version, not bad but not great and very big and heavy. Konica Zoom-Hexanon UC 4/80-200 is better and lighter so I sold the Vivitar.

[cooltouch]

Not to derail this topic or anything, but I feel it is only fair to mention, since we're discussing the merits of 70-210 zooms, the Tamron 19AH SP 70-210mm f/3.5 is virtually equivalent to the Vivitar S1 lenses, as far as resolution/contrast numbers go. It tends to outperform the Vivitars on corner sharpness and is very close on center sharpness. But to me, the big surprise is the Tamron 23A SP 60-300 3.8-5.4. Yes, it's slower than the Vivitars, but it also has more range in both directions. Plus, it is sharper than ALL of the Vivitar S1 lenses, except v3 of the S1s, which outscores the 60-300 by 4 l/mm at 210mm. That, to me, is getting into the territory of splitting hairs as to a difference. I own a couple of Tamron 60-300s and a 70-210. Really, the 70-210 doesn't get much use because I just tend to reach for the 60-300 first. I've been using a Tamron 60-300 ever since I bought one new back in the mid-1980s. It was an expensive lens -- more expensive by a considerable amount than the Vivitar S1 70-210s. As I dimly recall, I paid well in excess of $300US for it. And that would have been approximately 1986 dollars, too. Often the Tamron 60-300 can be found on eBay for cheap.

[Tervueren]

[maldaye]

[Mir]

For a short while i owned and love the 3rd version Komine made S1 70-210...
I sold it because of its MD mount.... not very useful to me...

I now own a Tamron 19AH.

You can get useful info on all VIVITAR S1 70-210's version here:
http://www.robertstech.com/vivitar.htm#samples

[Tervueren]

[cooltouch]

[glasslover]

Hi!

I have both the Tamron 19AH 70-210 3.5 and the 23A 60-300 3.8-5.4. I find that the images from the 23A are in general as good as those from the 19AH, and I prefer both the general handling and the close focus capabilities of the 23A. It goes to 1:1.55 macro magnification! The only problem I've found with the 23A is extreme purple fringing in some very high-contrast situations. Please see my previous post for many pictures taken with a Panasonic GH2 and this lens, including some shots showing the PF problem. That said, this is one I reach for often when I ned a large zoom range.

http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=54388

These are often available in good shape, and with the hood (don't skimp on this, you'lll need it), for $75 or so on auction sites. The 19AH is much less common and is in my opinion--despite some degree of hype about it--not as good in the real world.

Cheers!

[cooltouch]

[Pontus]

I hope you got the information needed to make an informed decision. However, one thing I have learned is that these things are almost never urgent or time-sensitive. Lenses come and lenses go.

[Aanything]

In my experience, the 19AH is slightly better than the 23A - even if I didn't compare them in deep, it's just an impression I had using them.
The difference, if any, is so slight that is easily compensated by longer reach and lower price, though.
One thing I really appreciate in my 19AH is the constant max aperture.
Both lenses suffer a bit from purple fringing, under some circumstances.

some samples with the 19AH:
http://forum.mflenses.com/tamron-sp-70-210-3-5-cf-macro-some-samples-t58923,highlight,%2Btamron+%2Bsp+%2B70+%2B210.html

And, there's one for sale here on the marketplace
http://forum.mflenses.com/tamron-sp-70-210-3-5-cf-macro-19ah-t59388,highlight,%2Btamron+%2Bsp+%2B70+%2B210.html