Bessa T as a starter rangefinder

[msteen1314]

Hi all, I recently saw a sale on eBay for a Bessa T

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200726739534?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

I've been thinking about Bessas lately and while this one seemed to go pretty quickly, I'd like to get your thoughts on the pros and cons of the Bessa T from those who have actually used them versus those who review them.

I'm comfortable with older rangefinders however with age come worsening eyesight and the 1.5x rangefinder window appeals to me as well as the exposure reading on the top.

I also understand that a fair price is what anyone is willing to pay but in reality how much would I expect to pay for a basic Bessa T with a wide angle 25-35mm range.

The Cameraquest.com site has lots of info, too much right now to help me.

Thanks in advance for any assistance

Martin
_________________
Kodak Retina Reflex III
Schneider-Kreuznach Retina-Curtagon 28mm f/4, Rodenstock-Iloca-Heligon 50mm f1.9, Schneider-Kreuznach Retina-Tele-Xenar 135mm f/4,Schneider-Kreuznach Retina-Tele-Xenar 200mm f/4.8
Kodalux L Light meter

[Orio]

Ok, I had it, and I'm going to be sincere... I hated it. The absence of a viewfinder forced me to always focus in rangefinder first, then
reach for the additional (and costly) viewfinder mounted on the flash shoe... as a result, I had 100% of my street photographs
missed.
Obviously, if you don't mind about snapshots, and are only interested in still subjects, the above limitation will not affect you much...
but... I also can not figure out why someone would want to buy a manual rangefinder if snapshots aren't part of his agenda.
So, my conclusion is that it's a product that missed its goal.
But, this is my personal judgement. I also know of people who like the Bessa T.
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Orio, Administrator
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Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
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[rbelyell]

martin, i sent you a PM.

just to give another experience, i love mine. my research said that it was the most accurately focusing RF, and accurately focused close up and fast lenses wide open, both notorious problems for RF cameras. i personally found it impossible to focus my summarit 50/1.4 wide open or close up with other M mount film cams. plus my eyes stink, so the bessa t 1.5x magnification was a godsend. and i have had no problems close focusing my summarit or shooting it wide open sice getting the T. i love having the meter on the outside as i can meter even before the cam hits my eye, and if i'm shooting hyperfocally, i can go straight to the vf.

yes it does take some getting used to, going from RF to external VF, and it surely is a matter of taste. i just took to it because i was so happy that i could SEE and focus! also, i got a tewe turret vf 35-135 for about $75, and another 50-85 for $50. as for 'snapshot' or shooting hyperfocally, i think the reason is its just part of what you can do with this cam, as with any cam really, but the external meter really helps for that kind of shooting. plus as opposed to large slrs, you can get a tiny tiny 25mm snapshot skopar, which is one of the best WA's out there and you can fit the whole rig, including external vf, in your jacket pocket. i loved mine so much i ended up buying the navy blue anniversary edition. i was actually planning to post some camera 'porn' on it here soon, its so beautiful.

anyway, it really does come down to a matter of personal taste. i can understand how soeone could be much less enthusiastic than i about it.
tony
_________________
Ricoh GXR M mount; Fuji X100; Fuji X20; Hasselblad XPan/45 & 90mm lenses; Bessa T Blue 101 Anniversary Ed./Rokkor 20/2.8, Canon 28/3.5, Nikkor 3.5/2.5; Summarit 50/1.5, CV Heliar 75/2.5, Elmar 90/4, Sankyo Komura 135/2.8, Hektor 135/4.5; Contax T*; Kodak Retina IV/S-K lenses 28, 35, 50, 85, 135 & 200mm; Konica TC-X/57/1.4; Zeiss Ikon 6x9; Mamiya 6; Braun Paxina 29 6x6; Photax Boyer Paris 6x6; Mercury 2 35mm; Holga 120 Pano

FOR SALE:
ZEISS BIOTAR 75/1.5 Exakta mount w Konica AR mount adapter
ZEISS BIOGON 28/2.8 contax G conversion to M mount
ZEISS SONNAR T 135/4 nikon rf mount w M adapter
KONICA AR 24/2.8 & 100/2.8
KODAK RETINA REFLEX IV CAM like new with full set of 7 schneider kruezach lenses, extras
M42: Mir 35/2
Adaptall: Tamron SP 28-85 macro
Cameras: Canon IX
PM for more complete descriptions/pix. All in great shape!
_________________________
'buy me a drink, sing me a song,
take me as i come 'cause i can't stay long'

[msteen1314]

Thanks Orio and Tony, quite different experiences from both of you.

I would have thought that as a street camera, the external meter and zone focus would have been an excellent option considering time is of the essence. Currently zone focusing is what I prefer when street shooting as it seems to be less invasive on the subject, granted, auto focus on many cameras eliminates this concern.
In practice I don't know that I'd be overly worried about the focus due to the depth of field as well as the critical framing due to the wide angle of view. I would imaging however that the use of longer lenses may change this opinion.

I'm considering this almost as a dedicated street/landscape camera with the 25mm as the only lens.

Please more opinions !!! I know there are a lot of Bessa users out there based on past threads (although I couldn't find as many on the)

Thanks again Orio and Tony

Martin
_________________
Kodak Retina Reflex III
Schneider-Kreuznach Retina-Curtagon 28mm f/4, Rodenstock-Iloca-Heligon 50mm f1.9, Schneider-Kreuznach Retina-Tele-Xenar 135mm f/4,Schneider-Kreuznach Retina-Tele-Xenar 200mm f/4.8
Kodalux L Light meter

[rbelyell]

well as a street cam with the cv 25/4 set to f8 it is a 'point and shoot' rig that you can carry in your pocket. if you just want a cam for that single purpose might i also suggest the contax T. it has a 38mm lens that when set to f8 has very similar DOF to the cv25. plus its a zeiss lens, its a RF and it fits in your shirt pocket! i have one and there is ALWAYS film in it. i read that it was one of cartier-bresson's favorites.

really, imo, the reason to choose the T is that it gives you the flexibility to both be a fast street shooter but also permits you to shoot other great M/M39 lenses with absolute focusing confidence.
_________________
Ricoh GXR M mount; Fuji X100; Fuji X20; Hasselblad XPan/45 & 90mm lenses; Bessa T Blue 101 Anniversary Ed./Rokkor 20/2.8, Canon 28/3.5, Nikkor 3.5/2.5; Summarit 50/1.5, CV Heliar 75/2.5, Elmar 90/4, Sankyo Komura 135/2.8, Hektor 135/4.5; Contax T*; Kodak Retina IV/S-K lenses 28, 35, 50, 85, 135 & 200mm; Konica TC-X/57/1.4; Zeiss Ikon 6x9; Mamiya 6; Braun Paxina 29 6x6; Photax Boyer Paris 6x6; Mercury 2 35mm; Holga 120 Pano

FOR SALE:
ZEISS BIOTAR 75/1.5 Exakta mount w Konica AR mount adapter
ZEISS BIOGON 28/2.8 contax G conversion to M mount
ZEISS SONNAR T 135/4 nikon rf mount w M adapter
KONICA AR 24/2.8 & 100/2.8
KODAK RETINA REFLEX IV CAM like new with full set of 7 schneider kruezach lenses, extras
M42: Mir 35/2
Adaptall: Tamron SP 28-85 macro
Cameras: Canon IX
PM for more complete descriptions/pix. All in great shape!
_________________________
'buy me a drink, sing me a song,
take me as i come 'cause i can't stay long'

[Attila]

Think about Russian RF much more less costs you can discover RF usage on inexpensive way, only look when you buy seller must declare camera in working condition , film tested if possible.
_________________
Attila - admin --- BUY FRESH FOMAPAN TO HELP KEEP THE FACTORY ALIVE ---
Foma Campaign topic - FOMAPAN on forum - Webshop EU

Items on sale on Ebay

35mm: Konica A4, Konica IIIA, Konica FC-1
MF: Konica Pearl I,II,III 6x4,5 Konica Semi Pearl
Film: Foma,Kodak, Fuji DIY development C41, FOMA LQR
Scan: Epson V500, scanassist (http://www.scanassist.org)
Shutter tester: LCD tester from member vfmoto
Digital: Panasonic G1, Sony Nex-3, Samsung NX100
Lenses: Konica Hexanons,Carl Zeiss,Carl Zeiss Jena,Meyer-Optik,Minolta MD,Yashica ML,Nikon,Olympus OM
DIY E-6,C41 and B&W

[Orio]

If someone shoots "pure" hyperfocal, then the rangefinder becomes irrelevant - but you still need different hotshoe viewfinders for different focal lenghts,
which add to the expense - and while the turret solution might solve the problem of carrying different viewfinders (and losing them at times...), if you want to stealth-photograph,
attaching such a thing as the turret does make your camera very noticeable.

My street technique is different - I use my variation of hyperfocal technique, which I pompously call the "adaptive hyperfocal"
it consists in setting the camera-lens ensemble for hyperfocal, but quickly adjust focusing distance on the fly.
This technique relies still on the useability of hyperfocal, but the quick adjustment of focus, even if not precise, lets you gain enlargement estate.
If an image taken with pure hyperfocal may enlarge well up to 12x18 cms, an image taken with adaptive hyperfocal may enlarge well to 20x30 cms
(or even more if you've been good).
This can make an important difference in image quality, and it's a technique that is only possible if you have a rangefinder-integrated viewfinder.

Having that said, everyone has his own shooting style so what is not good for me may be good for you.
I personally think that the difference in price between the Bessa T and the Bessa R3 is not such to justify useability sacrifices,
but to everyone his own - Tony proves that the T too can make people happy. What is important is to understand things well before buying, in order to avoid remorses.
_________________
Orio, Administrator
T*
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html

[rbelyell]

people do enjoy and make good use of russian rf's, and theyre certainly cheap. attila has posted beautiful work with many of them. i have one and personally find the weird metering system much too intrusive for my style. thus i used it once, became exceedingly frustrated and it now sits by itself in my closet...could be my own limitations.
_________________
Ricoh GXR M mount; Fuji X100; Fuji X20; Hasselblad XPan/45 & 90mm lenses; Bessa T Blue 101 Anniversary Ed./Rokkor 20/2.8, Canon 28/3.5, Nikkor 3.5/2.5; Summarit 50/1.5, CV Heliar 75/2.5, Elmar 90/4, Sankyo Komura 135/2.8, Hektor 135/4.5; Contax T*; Kodak Retina IV/S-K lenses 28, 35, 50, 85, 135 & 200mm; Konica TC-X/57/1.4; Zeiss Ikon 6x9; Mamiya 6; Braun Paxina 29 6x6; Photax Boyer Paris 6x6; Mercury 2 35mm; Holga 120 Pano

FOR SALE:
ZEISS BIOTAR 75/1.5 Exakta mount w Konica AR mount adapter
ZEISS BIOGON 28/2.8 contax G conversion to M mount
ZEISS SONNAR T 135/4 nikon rf mount w M adapter
KONICA AR 24/2.8 & 100/2.8
KODAK RETINA REFLEX IV CAM like new with full set of 7 schneider kruezach lenses, extras
M42: Mir 35/2
Adaptall: Tamron SP 28-85 macro
Cameras: Canon IX
PM for more complete descriptions/pix. All in great shape!
_________________________
'buy me a drink, sing me a song,
take me as i come 'cause i can't stay long'

[Attila]

In street photography usually ok measure light once a day and after a few times you know well from your memory. Especially with B&W film not really important. I use always handheld meter and measure once light on trip. My favorite Russian RF cameras are FED-2, Zorki2-C , KIEV-III , KIEV-4 , Zorki-4 etc
_________________
Attila - admin --- BUY FRESH FOMAPAN TO HELP KEEP THE FACTORY ALIVE ---
Foma Campaign topic - FOMAPAN on forum - Webshop EU

Items on sale on Ebay

35mm: Konica A4, Konica IIIA, Konica FC-1
MF: Konica Pearl I,II,III 6x4,5 Konica Semi Pearl
Film: Foma,Kodak, Fuji DIY development C41, FOMA LQR
Scan: Epson V500, scanassist (http://www.scanassist.org)
Shutter tester: LCD tester from member vfmoto
Digital: Panasonic G1, Sony Nex-3, Samsung NX100
Lenses: Konica Hexanons,Carl Zeiss,Carl Zeiss Jena,Meyer-Optik,Minolta MD,Yashica ML,Nikon,Olympus OM
DIY E-6,C41 and B&W

[F16SUNSHINE]

If you plan to Zone focus and shoot primarily street the Bessa T is an oversized camera with an overkill RF system.
For pure zone I would choose an Olympus XA4.
It's tiny, has a brilliant f3.5/28mm Zuiko lens, almost completely silent leaf shutter, and a nice bright 28mm VF.
Seriously this camera is the size of box of cigs. A street shooters dream camera.
_________________
Moderator

[msteen1314]

thanks Attila for your input regarding Russian rangefinders. I currently use a Kiev 4a and enjoy it quite a lot, even though its a 1977 model, the design just take me back.

The one thing that may be getting lost in this thread however is that my eyesight has been getting worse over the years and as a result the 7 Retinas as well as the Kiev, not to mention the Vito B's (which I love), are becoming too frustrating to use on a regular basis unless I'm really in the mood for them - sad but true

It was with this in mind that I began to look at what was out there based on what I need rather than what I want. With that in mind, something like the Bessas with their relatively large white on black markings as well as the external exposure meter seems to fit the need I require and as such got me looking at the various models out there.

Budget is always a concern especially when you are venturing into an area that you are not 100% sure will accomplish your intended goals. The higher end Bessas certainly peak my interest however it was simplicity that I had in mind and for the most part the Bessa T seems to be going in that general direction.

Orio, you indicate that your "hybrid" zone focus partially works however it's not completely to your liking with the Bessa T and that's a good point for me to consider as in execution I may find this also.

Thanks again for all of your input

Martin
_________________
Kodak Retina Reflex III
Schneider-Kreuznach Retina-Curtagon 28mm f/4, Rodenstock-Iloca-Heligon 50mm f1.9, Schneider-Kreuznach Retina-Tele-Xenar 135mm f/4,Schneider-Kreuznach Retina-Tele-Xenar 200mm f/4.8
Kodalux L Light meter

[msteen1314]

When it comes to being inconspicuous.

Which is better, a slim street photographer with a moderate sized camera

Or a chubby middle aged photographer with a small camera.

Just a thought ....not going to say where I belong


_________________
Kodak Retina Reflex III
Schneider-Kreuznach Retina-Curtagon 28mm f/4, Rodenstock-Iloca-Heligon 50mm f1.9, Schneider-Kreuznach Retina-Tele-Xenar 135mm f/4,Schneider-Kreuznach Retina-Tele-Xenar 200mm f/4.8
Kodalux L Light meter

[Orio]

[F16SUNSHINE]

Retinas, Kiev, Vito ?
I thought you asked about a starter rf
_________________
Moderator

[rbelyell]