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Contax G lenses - NEX 5N or Micro 4/3 is best?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:08 am    Post subject: Contax G lenses - NEX 5N or Micro 4/3 is best? Reply with quote
This is my first post to MFLENSES. I have been reading many posts about manual focus lenses, and I finally decided to go for it.
Just bought the Contax G 28mm, 45mm and 90mm. They are on the way now, will arrive Wednesday.... can't wait!

I am aware of all the issues about the adapters and focus ring.
My question is more about what is the best camera to pair with these lenses?

Right now I have an Olympus E-Pl1, maybe that would work OK?

I am thinking to upgrade to either a Sony NEX-5N, Panasonic GX-1 Olympus E-P3 or Panasonic GH2.
Does anybody have any advice which camera would make these lenses really shine the best?

My feeling is that the NEX-5N would be best, but recent reports about the GX1 are very good
(for example, from the soundimageplus blog).


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
reportedly the soon to be released fuji xpro1 will have no AA filter, thus its resolution capability may be well beyond those cameras youve listed. plus it has a viewfinder. it will be difficult enough to focus these lenses due to adapter-focusing. that will be compounded if the camera is not braced against the head.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for the suggestion.
The Fuji looks very intereesting, but will be out of my budget.
While I would love to hear about any cameras that would give the best match to the Contax G lenses, I am particularly focused on those in my budget, which would be around $750.

Your point about weak anti-alias filter is also well taken.
I would generally prefer weaker, all other things being equal.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
You have a Pen already so i suggest you stick with it - you only need one adapter.
5n will give you slightly better resolution and dynamic range but it will have worse vignetting with 28 and the lenses will be more prone to flare in general( you use larger portion of the fov). If you want a nex you should consider getting a set of the Contax G lens hoods also. Nexes have weak AA filters and you will see moire sometimes.

I would recommend also a good color profile target (like Xrite passport) as the Nex colors and white balance are not so good as with Oly.
Whatever you decide to do i will advise you to keep the Pen for a while Smile.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
std wrote:

5n will give you slightly better resolution and dynamic range but it will have worse vignetting with 28 and the lenses will be more prone to flare in general( you use larger portion of the fov). .


I doubt it's "slightly", I'd say much better, as the old Nex-5 did score a lot better at this chapter and high ISO wise, it's at least 2 EV's better. I'm not sure good full frame 28mm lenses will show vignetting on an APS-C sensor... and in case they had I'd avoid those. Color on 5n seems OK, better then on nex-5 (which I sold because I didn't like it's jpeg output, and though I shoot raw, I didn't really enjoy messing with every picture to obtain satisfactory results)

I agree about the jpeg and white balance on Oly. I got the EPL-1 which I like shooting with a lot, IBIS is a real gem with manual focus lenses. Both systems have their strengths, but overall if image quality is the key factor - nex-5n hands down.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
i think, outside of low light where sony wins, IQ will be pretty similar. i have and enjoy an m4/3 ep2 and with top lenses i get great IQ.

i think the base issue is one of crop factor, which every day effects useability. m4/3 is 2x, so lenses will be 56,90&180mm. i personally feel these are not as useable every day as aps-c crop factor of 1.5 that yields approximate FLs of 42,75,135mm, which are much more classic.

what i would definitely suggest as imperitive is having a vf. focusing on these adapters will not be smooth and thus will be much more difficult not braced against your head.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Getting some great feedback here, thanks!

I only shoot RAW and process with Adobe Lightroom.
I wonder if the colors are still better / easier on the E-PL1 vs. 5n?

The point about the equivalent focal lengths is a great one, I would much prefer the 5n equivalent FL's.

Also, I have heard that the manual focusing on the 5n is very good, maybe better than E-PL1?

Right now, I am leaning towards keeping the E-PL1 (it will only fetch $150 anyway), and also buying a 5n.
That will actually give me 6 equivalent focal lengths with 2 different color profiles:
42,56,75,90,135,180mm.

However, the Panasonic's still intrigue me.... Maybe replace my E-PL1 with a GX1?


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The focus peaking in the Sony NEX is supposed to be really, really good for manual focusing.
I haven´t tried it myself as none of my friends own one and the stores do not have them on working display.
I think I will break down and buy one when I get wife approval.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
gobears wrote:
Getting some great feedback here, thanks!

I only shoot RAW and process with Adobe Lightroom.
I wonder if the colors are still better / easier on the E-PL1 vs. 5n?


I can't say much about 5n as I don't own one, but I did take pictures with, and processed some raw files, I liked 5n a lot more then my nex-5.
I'm shooting raw myself, well was... since EPL1 has one of the best jpeg rendering of all mirrorless, (http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2010/04/07/the-olympus-e-pl1-review-the-best-jpeg-camera-ever/ - I do agree with him).
Regarding Lightroom - i like how it handles noise reduction, but I suggest you take a trial with DxO 7, it's a lot slower then Adobe, but the result was much more pleasant to my eye, I mean the colors Smile.

gobears wrote:


Also, I have heard that the manual focusing on the 5n is very good, maybe better than E-PL1?

Right now, I am leaning towards keeping the E-PL1 (it will only fetch $150 anyway), and also buying a 5n.
That will actually give me 6 equivalent focal lengths with 2 different color profiles:
42,56,75,90,135,180mm.

However, the Panasonic's still intrigue me.... Maybe replace my E-PL1 with a GX1?


Indeed, on nex-5n is much easier to focus with, not only that it has focus peaking, but the display is a lot better, higher res, frankly EPL1 is outdated here, crappy display Smile
And yeah - I'd keep the EPL1, actually that's what I did. Cost me 125$ new body only, you can't really blame on anything...
Regarding GX1, well not the cheapest camera around, I'm not saying it's a bad one, but I doubt it's that much better, no IBIS for m4/3 is a no-go for me.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
yes absolutely no need to shoot RAW with any olly ep, unless its difficult lighting and you are worried about white balance. olly jpeg engine, like fuji's, is fantastic.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
IBIS is a big advantage for the Olympus cameras.
I really wish the NEX line had used IBIS like alpha.
For that reason, you guys have convinced me to hold onto my E-PL1.

Even with the great JPEG engine of Olympus, which I fully agree, I still like the flexibilty of using RAW in Lightroom.

As for DXO, I had never thought of that. Do they have camera profiles for the E-PL1 that can reproduce similar jpeg as in-camera?

On the original questions, I still wonder about color shift on the NEX-5N versus the E-Pl1?
Also, would still like to hear feedback from any Panasonic users with the Contax-G lenses.
While IBIS is a great feature, its not necessary for many types of shooting.
Its only really helpful for low-light, where the NEX-5N superior lowlight capability, and the speed of the lens itself I would rate as equally or more important.


PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
gobears wrote:


As for DXO, I had never thought of that. Do they have camera profiles for the E-PL1 that can reproduce similar jpeg as in-camera?


That's one thing that I like about DXO - you don't have to import any camera calibration profiles, search for paths and so on... DXO just automatically asks you if you want to install a new modules for your camera and lenses. Well it may seem less "professional" as many things are automated, but I do like it. Also Film pack is great Smile

PS.
Lightroom is still my main software for editing and organizing photos, but when I want good colors I don't hesitate using DXO. Don't get it as any kind of advertising, give it a go, you never know when you like it Smile

gobears wrote:

While IBIS is a great feature, its not necessary for many types of shooting.
Its only really helpful for low-light, where the NEX-5N superior lowlight capability, and the speed of the lens itself I would rate as equally or more important.


Well I was spoiled by "SSS" super steady shot in my Alpha bodies, took me a while to take good pictures with my nex-5, since it's a small camera and not really ergonomic. EPL1\'s IBIS surpasses Sony a700's one, I'm not afraid to say by a whole EV. I can shoot handhold with my Rokinon 85/1.4 (which makes it a 170mm on m4/3) @ 1/20 of a second and get decent results, there's no way I can do it on Nex or Alpha... At long exposures Oly's IBIS is better, I suppose due to a smaller sensor.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Has anyone used the DXO plugins to lightroom?
I wonder if there is a way to get DXO color into Lightroom when you want it, but use the Lightroom flow for everything else?

On the main topic, I looked around an found many great examples of the NEX-5N with all 3 of the Contax-G lenses.

I have not found any good discussions and photo examples of the E-PL1 (or other PENS) with the Contax-G lenses.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
RTI wrote:
std wrote:

5n will give you slightly better resolution and dynamic range but it will have worse vignetting with 28 and the lenses will be more prone to flare in general( you use larger portion of the fov). .


I doubt it's "slightly", I'd say much better, as the old Nex-5 did score a lot better at this chapter and high ISO wise, it's at least 2 EV's better. I'm not sure good full frame 28mm lenses will show vignetting on an APS-C sensor... and in case they had I'd avoid those. Color on 5n seems OK, better then on nex-5 (which I sold because I didn't like it's jpeg output, and though I shoot raw, I didn't really enjoy messing with every picture to obtain satisfactory results)

I agree about the jpeg and white balance on Oly. I got the EPL-1 which I like shooting with a lot, IBIS is a real gem with manual focus lenses. Both systems have their strengths, but overall if image quality is the key factor - nex-5n hands down.

+1


PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
To what extent do you think IBIS can remove the need for a tripod?

I am dreaming that Pentax will bring out an NEX sized camera with IBIS and same sensor as the 5N.

I am buying most of my MF kit for hiking and travel, and would love to ditch the tripod!


PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think I was one on the early nex adopters here--for quite a while there were just a few of us. With much help for others here I bought nearly 40 lenses for use on the nex--of all discriptions.

A few thoughts.

Crop is paramount, and IMHO the 1.5x of the nex is the max for extensive MF use--not that you cannot have fun or prodcue good results at 2x, but when a 50 becomes a 100, it's a bit much.

As soon as there is an affordable short register FF I will transition from the nex for this reason. Even the M8 is far superior to the nex at 1.3x

IBIS. Not an issue for me. I've used the native nex lenses which have OIS and see no advantage in the real world. Senosr quality and crop far outweigh IBIS or OIS.

Nex generations: for daylight shooting the original nexes seem just as good as the newest, high iso the c3 and newer are better. LCDs are all the same to look at, but the EVF is fantastic, and no amount of reading about prepared me for how good it is.

The 5n is better because:
1) high ISO
2) EVF
3) shutter noise.

this last is acutally huge. the shutter is way quieter and this does make a difference any time a human is your subject.

the xpro-1, it seems will not match the MF of the nex, however for M mount glass the rioch GXR has a better sensor than any nex, and can be MFed, but it's painful.

The nex-7 has no advantage over the 5n besides interface and possibly huge prints. Per pixel the 5n is much nicer, but of course the n7 has more. Twice I have had the n7 on pre-order, but after extensive research I just don't see the point--my next upgrade will be to a small EVIL full frame, which is coming soon--within 18 months.

The 5n is much better for the contax 28 and probably for the 21 (which has soft corners on ALL nexes, but is really sharp in the centers)
The contax 45 and 90 are both superb on all nexes.

The nex is now quite cheap, it's easy to find some version of the body for 250USD. This being the case there is nothing to "wait" for. If you like your m43, you can still keep it, and get a nex for MF work, where there is just no comparision. The sole advantage of m43s are the mature native lens sets.

That's just my impression--please no offense to any who might disagree.


nikkor 10.5 cm circa 1959


nikkor 180 AIS ED


28 summicron


400/6.8 telyt


zm18


PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
uhoh7 wrote:
Crop is paramount, and IMHO the 1.5x of the nex is the max for extensive MF use--not that you cannot have fun or prodcue good results at 2x, but when a 50 becomes a 100, it's a bit much.

Agreed. The first consideration should be how much of the field of view you want to conserve.
Secondly, the smaller the sensor, the higher the requirement of the contrast at high spatial frequencies. Contrast and sharpness will always be better on bigger sensors, with the exception of the (extreme) corners, but you still are not getting those in the frame with an APS-C (NEX) sensor.


PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks so much for the feedback, really cleared the cobwebs out of my mind about this decision.
I will order the 5N and use it the most. I will keep the EPL1 for a while to play around with.

UhOh7,
Those are really great points you make.
I am also dreaming of a full frame EVIL camera.
18 months is a pretty specific time frame.
Have you heard some rumors or have some ideas to form the basis for that projection?
It would be so great if it comes true!

AhamB,

Your quote is really interesting. Could you please elaborate a bit?

Quote:
Secondly, the smaller the sensor, the higher the requirement of the contrast at high spatial frequencies. Contrast and sharpness will always be better on bigger sensors, with the exception of the (extreme) corners, but you still are not getting those in the frame with an APS-C (NEX) sensor.


I think what you are saying is that small sensors cannot resolve small details well unless they have really high contrast.
Or, say another way, small sensors reduce the micro-contrast delivered by the lens, partially negated the benefit of lenses with awesome micro-contrast like Contax G?
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