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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57840 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2021-11-18
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject: How to use photographic filters |
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Attila wrote:
Please teach me guys how can I use right different photographic filters! What filter for what purpose ? Thank you! _________________ -------------------------------
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
oh, that's a wide range question!
Let's first see what filters. Color correction filters?
You can use those in two ways:
- by "naked eye", you determine how cool/warm the natural scene is and use an amber or blue filter to balance it
- by use of a thermocolorimeter - then you can determine the filter needed with precision
Then there are many other kind of filters:
- polarizer
- gradient
- neutral density
- diffusers
- B&W filters
- special effects etc.
So impossible to give a one-for-all answer!
The one thing that I can say is: keep in mind that a filter, ANY filter (yes including the skylight or UV filters) causes a small (or large) degradation of the image quality.
So as a general rule: the less filters you use, the better. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Filters are great for film cameras.
For DSLRs only these filters are useful:
- Skylight- or UV-filter to protect the lens in tough surroundings
- Greyfilter to get to longer exposure times or open apertures even if it is bright.
- gradient filtes in high contrast situations (sky / landscape)
- polarization filters to intensify colours and to filter away reflections (e.g. on water)
It is an art to use pol.filters correctly.
Colour filters are IMHO nonsense for a DSLR, since the auto white balance will calculate away the effect. And if you want this kind of effect, you can easily do that with PS (or similar pp).
Those colour filters were and are essential for b/w film photography.
Carsten _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57840 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2021-11-18
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Thank you guys! I read on skylight filter title this is good for outdoor portraits , is it true ? I also read for DSLR need circular polar filter, not old linear polar filter. Is this a commercial only or need to change really to the latest one? _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
Attila wrote: |
Thank you guys! I read on skylight filter title this is good for outdoor portraits , is it true ? I also read for DSLR need circular polar filter, not old linear polar filter. Is this a commercial only or need to change really to the latest one? |
The skylight filter is useless with digital cameras, because the camera will balance the white anyway.
The only purpose for a skylight filter would be to protect the front lens, if you are useing an expensive lens.
For this purpose, it's better a UV filter, or even a totally neutral "protection filter".
But keep in mind that a filter will of course increase the risk of flares, especially if the UV filter is not very good.
So the UV filter needs to be a very good one. B+W are the best ones, but are very expensive. On the other hand, there is not much point in spending one or more hundreds of euros for a lens and putting in front of it a Eur 5 UV filter that will ruin the optical quality.
Due to the way sensors are designed (but don't ask me the details) they say that digital cameras need a particular type of UV filters. For this reason (or for simpe marketing?) all the filter companies have released recently special UV filters for digital cameras.
I never use UV filters, unless I am using lenses that I bought new. In this case, I always keep the UV filter on, because to have a "like new" glass will largely increase the used value of the lens if you want to sell it.
As for polarizers, what I have read is different: I read that it's the autofocus cameras (film and digital) that need circular polarizers, because of the way their internal light meters work.
I have both circular and linear, and I can tell you that yes sometimes I have perceived a metering error when using linear polarizer on autofocus cameras, but 90% of the time, I didn't.
Another thing to keep in mind is, the effect of a linear polarizer is stronger than the effect of a circular polarizer.
I rarely use polarizers, due to my own style which does not blend well with them, but the rare times I do, I always use a linear polarizer, because in my opinion, it saturates the colors better than the circular polarizer. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 57840 Location: Hungary
Expire: 2021-11-18
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Quote: |
Another thing to keep in mind is, the effect of a linear polarizer is stronger than the effect of a circular polarizer.
I rarely use polarizers, due to my own style which does not blend well with them, but the rare times I do, I always use a linear polarizer, because in my opinion, it saturates the colors better than the circular polarizer. |
Great I have only linear polarizer, I also bought protection filter only for new AF lenses and I removed filters from MF lenses. _________________ -------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
I agree with Orio.
I only use any kind of protective filters with brand new (and expensive) lenses.
BTW, you should always spend more money and buy the best filters you can get. Here any money saved will cause quality reduction. With very good filters I cannot see any difference.
And, although I've read about a test where they found out that mostly linear polarizers work with a DSLR, you should use circular ones, really.
The metering system might not work properly when uses with polarized light in one linear dimension. _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
LucisPictor wrote: |
And, although I've read about a test where they found out that mostly linear polarizers work with a DSLR, you should use circular ones, really.
The metering system might not work properly when uses with polarized light in one linear dimension. |
Yes, but with the digital reflex we have a great chance: we can see the histogram right after shooting, and if needed, we can adjust and reshoot.
So on film I would always recommend the circular, but on digital, it really depends only on how much time you plan to dedicate to take a better picture. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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Rob Leslie
Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 1103 Location: UK Swindon
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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Rob Leslie wrote:
LucisPictor wrote: |
Filters are great for film cameras.
For DSLRs only these filters are useful:
- Skylight- or UV-filter to protect the lens in tough surroundings
- Greyfilter to get to longer exposure times or open apertures even if it is bright.
- gradient filtes in high contrast situations (sky / landscape)
- polarization filters to intensify colours and to filter away reflections (e.g. on water)
It is an art to use pol.filters correctly.
Colour filters are IMHO nonsense for a DSLR, since the auto white balance will calculate away the effect. And if you want this kind of effect, you can easily do that with PS (or similar pp).
Those colour filters were and are essential for b/w film photography.
Carsten |
Must agree 100% with Lucis
Using a colour filter with digital is nonsense. Even with BW film that is being scanned to the computer, it is doubtfull they do any better than doing the effect PP.
I wouldn't go for any gradient filter either. It was a blanket uncontrolable effect. Far more and better control to shot RAW and then work with two layers or use PS own gradient
Polarizing filter is a must. I never had any problem using them.
Natural density filters (Grey filters) Also a big must and My most used filters. How else can you control exposre when the the iso won't go any lower? Essential for shooting shallow depth of field and when slower shutter speeds are required
Special effects filters (Many good Cokin ones) great fun and some fantastic results and be obtained from them. gallaxy, diffraction, soft focus various, star, various. Not gradient or colour special effets though
UV for protection but they also do cut through a bit of haze particularly when using telephoto. I have done endless little tests and the only time I have ever seen them have any ill effect on an image is when shooting into the light and catch some flare. Which
shouldn't hapen if you use good lens hoods.
Lens Hoods. Most important if you want the best from your lens. I often stick a rolled up sheet of black cardboard on my 300mm about 5/6 inches of lens hood. lens hoods aren't only or shooting into the light they work with every shot. _________________ Pentax K10D & K100D. Many Tamron Adaptall SP lenses, Fujinon f4.5 400mm. A loved Lens Baby 2, Lubitel triplet +++ and many film cameras. Mainly a Digital user inc G5, GR2
http://robstreet.blogspot.com/
http://robleslie.blogspot.com/
http://roblesliephotography.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64956578@N00/ |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
For the reason Orio mentioned about degrading images, I have never, ever, used a filter in battle. One or two have arrived on lenses I've bought and I've kept them on for protection, but they come off for taking pictures.
So, after reading an article about polarising filters, I was intrigued to find out more and I bought a cheapish Hoya circular pol. filter to try.
I have never seen one like it before. The glass is dark-tinted, like sunglasses - the meter is telling me this makes a difference to the exposure of at least 2 stops. In fact it has two tinted glasses, one static next to the lens and one that is free to rotate. I see no effect when I rotate the outer glass except that some reflected light is (almost) eliminated. I was expecting the rotation to create a gradual reduction in light down to virtually nothing, but that doesn't happen. I also see no difference in colours, like I do with my pol. sunglasses, and that's disappointing because it is what I was hoping for.
I confess I don't understand this filter or know how to use it properly. No instructions came with it. Can anyone kindly give me some pointers? |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
Hi, Peter!
Make sure that you stand in the right angle to the sun if you use a pol.filter to make most of the effect:
"Polarization is most effective at 90 degrees to the sun. This means that the subject that you are shooting will display maximum polarization at right angles to the sun's position. At 180 degrees, in other words with the sun right behind you, polarization is almost non-existent."
(Source: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/polarizers.shtml)
See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizing_filter#Polarizer
http://www.shooter.net/index.php/weblog/Item/using-a-polarizer/
http://www.weatherscapes.com/techniques.php?cat=general&page=filters
http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=62980&forum_id=50
Enjoy!
Carsten _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
Thanks very much Carsten! That's just what I need |
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LucisPictor
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 17633 Location: Oberhessen, Germany / Maidstone ('95-'96)
Expire: 2013-12-03
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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LucisPictor wrote:
You're welcome, mate! _________________ Personal forum activity on pause every now and again (due to job obligations)!
Carsten, former Moderator
Things ON SALE
Carsten = "KAPCTEH" = "Karusutenu" | T-shirt?.........................My photos from Emilia: http://www.schouler.net/emilia/emilia2011.html
My gear: http://retrocameracs.wordpress.com/ausrustung/
Old list: http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=65 (Not up-to-date, sorry!) | http://www.lucispictor.de | http://www.alensaweek.wordpress.com |
http://www.retrocamera.de |
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Rob Leslie
Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 1103 Location: UK Swindon
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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Rob Leslie wrote:
peterqd wrote: |
For the reason Orio mentioned about degrading images, I have never, ever, used a filter in battle. One or two have arrived on lenses I've bought and I've kept them on for protection, but they come off for taking pictures.
So, after reading an article about polarising filters, I was intrigued to find out more and I bought a cheapish Hoya circular pol. filter to try.
I have never seen one like it before. The glass is dark-tinted, like sunglasses - the meter is telling me this makes a difference to the exposure of at least 2 stops. In fact it has two tinted glasses, one static next to the lens and one that is free to rotate. I see no effect when I rotate the outer glass except that some reflected light is (almost) eliminated. I was expecting the rotation to create a gradual reduction in light down to virtually nothing, but that doesn't happen. I also see no difference in colours, like I do with my pol. sunglasses, and that's disappointing because it is what I was hoping for.
I confess I don't understand this filter or know how to use it properly. No instructions came with it. Can anyone kindly give me some pointers? |
It sounds as if it is doing what and all it should do. You wont see the effect on sky colour or other surfaces through the viewfinder as the filter will only be cutting the reflective light. A two stop loss through the filter is normal. The way to use it is simply as you have already done. Rotate the filter till you see reflected light eliminated or as best as the filter can manage. if using a lens with rotating front element / filter do the adjustment after you have focused, redo if you change focus. no need for this if you have an internal focusing lens. _________________ Pentax K10D & K100D. Many Tamron Adaptall SP lenses, Fujinon f4.5 400mm. A loved Lens Baby 2, Lubitel triplet +++ and many film cameras. Mainly a Digital user inc G5, GR2
http://robstreet.blogspot.com/
http://robleslie.blogspot.com/
http://roblesliephotography.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64956578@N00/ |
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peterqd
Joined: 28 Feb 2007 Posts: 7448 Location: near High Wycombe, UK
Expire: 2014-01-04
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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peterqd wrote:
Thanks Rob, that's helpful. The only lens I have that rotates is the EF-S 18-55 kit lens, and this hasn't been back on the camera since the day I got my first M42 adapter!
The filter is only 49mm dia - I am intending to use it on my CZJ and Tak lenses to see if it will boost the saturation a little bit. |
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Orio
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 29545 Location: West Emilia
Expire: 2012-12-04
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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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Orio wrote:
peterqd wrote: |
Thanks Rob, that's helpful. The only lens I have that rotates is the EF-S 18-55 kit lens, and this hasn't been back on the camera since the day I got my first M42 adapter! |
Same here,
peterqd wrote: |
The filter is only 49mm dia - I am intending to use it on my CZJ and Tak lenses to see if it will boost the saturation a little bit. |
it will, just keep in mind (as a practical tip - as I'm not versed in the theory) that the more direct sunlight, the more useful. If the daylight is much diffused as in cloudy days, it is almost useless. _________________ Orio, Administrator
T*
NE CEDE MALIS AUDENTIOR ITO
Ferrania film is reborn! http://www.filmferrania.it/
Support the Ornano film chemicals company and help them survive!
http://forum.mflenses.com/ornano-chemical-products-t55525.html |
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