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55/1.2 lenses - Tomioka/Yashica/Porst/Revuenon...
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:45 pm    Post subject: 55/1.2 lenses - Tomioka/Yashica/Porst/Revuenon... Reply with quote
Some time ago, I was trying to find some info about these lenses, but different sources had different opinions...

Well, some info is more or less confirmed: All M42 55/1.2 lenses are based on Tomioka design and at least some of them (maybe all of them) are manufactured by Tomioka.

There are 2 designs:

1st design was used for majority of the lenses (Revueon, Yashinon, Tominon...). Based on 7/6 Ultron optical formula.

2nd design was used exclusively for DS-M Yashinon. It's a computer design, recalculated version former optical formula.

Today I tried a later lens, K-mount Porst MC 55/1.2. The optical block seems to be the same as the old model of Tomioka 55/1.2. Same reflections, same length... bokeh is the same, amount of axial CA is identical too. The only difference is in the color cast of coating layers (Tomioka Yashinon is colder, Porst is much warmer). Of course mechanical part is much worse then on the precise Tomioka product.

It seems to be likely to me, that after Tomioka developed the new computer design of 55/1.2, they licenced the old design to Cosina, which used it for Porst 55/1.2.

Unfortunately, I haven't the Cosina made K-mount Revuenon from the '90. I'm quite curious, if the lens use a different optical scheme or still the old one by Tomioka.


PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: 55/1.2 lenses - Tomioka/Yashica/Porst/Revuenon... Reply with quote
Hi, I had all three lenses, the Tomioka, the Porst and the Revuenon. The Revuenon is smaller, lighter and to my experience, sharper, giving more crisp details. But all three are sold, so I can't do any comparing shots.

Klaus


PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks Smile


PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi,

very interesting!

> 2nd design was used exclusively for DS-M Yashinon. It's a computer design, recalculated version former optical formula.

So you assume the the ML 55/1.2 is using the 1st design, too? I rather would like it being of the 2nd ...

Cheers!


PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I was talking about designs for M42 mount. I have no idea, which design was used for later lenses, I'm really not an yashica expert, sorry Smile


PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
no-X wrote:
I was talking about designs for M42 mount. I have no idea, which design was used for later lenses, I'm really not an yashica expert, sorry Smile


First of all,

the Tominon 1.2 was as far as i know a M42 Screw mount.
The Yashinon DS-M range was also only a M42 Screw mount.
I did have the lenses DS-M 2.8/24mm, 2.8/35mm, 1.4/50mm, 1.7/50mm, 2.8/135mm and 4/200mm and was very interested in the complete story of Tomioka/Yashinon..

I also do have the Porst 1.2/55mm, one of my favourite lenses.
So i think Cobalt60 is right.

The 55mm is the old Tomioka formula and the following 1.2/50mm Yashica Designs are different things (all are in M42x1)

In a german Forum there is a guy, which has the original Tominon
lens, which is only different to the Porst 1.2/55mm in the rotating direction of the aperture..




my copy has exactly the same outfit, but the blades do close anticlockwise..

Tominon was later overtaken by Yashica and a part of the Yashica lens development. As far as i know, the optical formula for the later 1.2/50mm
was computer-aided, as Cobalt60 wrote. It was also a M42 mount.

Cheers
Henry


PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
hey henry,

could you show some images taken with the prost 1.2/55?


PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
supahmario wrote:
hey henry,

could you show some images taken with the prost 1.2/55?


Yes,

i already did it somewhere here in this forum, but other circumstances, in another thread..

Here are again images taken with the Porst.. EOS 5D ... mostly open aperture..







Most of them are taken in heavy sunlight, or in the dark. Kids - image (twins) in the hospital and the rest is taken with open aperture. The COKE Image is also taken wide open in heavy sunlight on greek island "SIFNOS" wide open..

Cheers
Henry


PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
the 3D effect in the last one is amazing!


PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
supahmario wrote:
the 3D effect in the last one is amazing!


Yes, is an astonishing lens. The last picture is taken !!!!! OPEN !!! in heavy sunligt during a boring day on SIFNOS ISLAND.. my wife has to go swimming and i prefer dirnking an AMSTEL beer instead of. So i was playing aroung with the Porst to see what would happen with a 1.2 lens under this circumstances...

The results are fine. I definetely like this lens. But you have to be careful and its take a long time to get familiar with this lens wide open in sunlight.

It takes some weeks of trying and doing a lot wrong, but if you got it, its a very fine lens.

Cheers
Henry


PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I hope you got a big archive, hinnerker... aaaah Henry. Rolling Eyes
nice shoots!


PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bruce wrote:
I hope you got a big archive, hinnerker... aaaah Henry. Rolling Eyes
nice shoots!


Yeah Bruce,

some terrabytes.. but i am a lazy boy .. Very Happy

I kept the Porst! But this one has got a P/K Mount not M42 as the Yashinon DS-M line.

Did buy it broken in two pieces for small money.
The previous owner did try to repair the oily aperture and
unscrewed the unit. After that he was not able to bring the lens
together again. This old Porst lens often has problems with oily aperture, but its very easy to repair this. You only have to unscrew the front part of the metal from the Tubus and the first part of the lens, which is only screwed in.

cheers
Henry


PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
1.2/55 still priced high
Click here to see on Ebay


PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I can't remember which to which theories it complies but this is first time i see it in it's "original" packung as COSINON: Click here to see on Ebay.de


PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here're my contributions.

http://forum.manualfocus.org//viewtopic.php?id=16685
http://forum.manualfocus.org//viewtopic.php?id=16487

I have the same lens as this one:
http://club.pchome.net/topic_6_35_1072736.html


PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well I am pretty sad I just found a Tomioka 55 1.2 (not that easy in France) and I've converted it Nikon.

I can't get one usable picture !

1 It has back focus

2 I'm pretty sure even then the focus is not centered, meaning if I aim the "5" of an horizontal ruler in front of me , the focus is on the left on the "4" and I don't know if I can correct it.

On this post I see portraits taken wide open ... that's almost the reason why I bought it because I love the rendering of OOF area with it , but I just can't imagine having a correct portrait with mine ...


PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
back focus doesn't exist in MFlenses world
don't your dslr have liveview to check the performance of the lens
you have to correct the backfocus by shimming the matte screen


PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It has but I never use it.

If back focus doesn't exist in MF world is it my D700 body which is misaligned ?


PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lordcamel wrote:
It has but I never use it.

If back focus doesn't exist in MF world is it my D700 body which is misaligned ?

probably, focus the ruler with liveview on tripod and check if focus is the same in viewfinder
also some mate screen are not precise under f2.8, in this case you need the equivalent of canon EE-S who is designed for fast lenses

Last edited by poilu on Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:01 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
That would be even worse than the first reason ... but I ll try (I don't have a tripod for testing)


PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lordcamel wrote:
It has but I never use it.

If back focus doesn't exist in MF world is it my D700 body which is misaligned ?

Most digital bodies don't have focus screens that are calibrated well enough for a wide open 50mm f1.4, let alone the insanely shallow DOF of a 55mm f1.2.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ok but then how am I supposed to use these lens ? Only using Liveview ? I find it slow and not always easy if there's too much light ..


PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lordcamel wrote:
Ok but then how am I supposed to use these lens ? Only using Liveview ? I find it slow and not always easy if there's too much light ..

It isn't hard to calibrate your focus screen, hardest part is finding the shims. Here is a guide for removing the focus screen on a D700. I think back focusing means the screen needs more shim between the prism and the screen.

You might also want to upgrade to a focus screen intended for manual focus while you're at it.


PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lordcamel wrote:
Ok but then how am I supposed to use these lens ? Only using Liveview ? I find it slow and not always easy if there's too much light ..

I don't have better results with liveview even in dark night
it is question of practice, also good lens have the focus who snap in the viewfinder and it is difficult to miss a shot
bad lenses are not easy to focus even in liveview, you turn the focus 1mm and you don't see any difference
of course if the screen matte is not calibrated, you will never get a pic in focus


PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
How can I calibrate the focus screen ?

And before changing it I thought the D700 had a very good one ..
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