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Voigtländer 1.4/55mm Color-Ultron: Mamiya thus Tomioka?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:06 am    Post subject: Voigtländer 1.4/55mm Color-Ultron: Mamiya thus Tomioka? Reply with quote
OK it is said to be made by Mamiya. But it is also said Tomioka made Mamiya 1.4/55mm lenses so... Could we please clarify this question.
Talking about this AR version: http://captjack.exaktaphile.com/rollei/Rolleilenses.htm

It is then valid also for: Rolleinar 1.4/55mm = Voigtländer 1.4/55mm Color-Ultron AR = Mamiya = Tomioka ???


PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well had to borrow Mamiya to make sure. I can confirm all three being the same lens with minor differences like aperture ring going opposite way on Mamiya. Ultron and Rolleinar have later purple coating whereas my SX still is classic yellow. For me now the question is where did this line finish. Which lens inherited this optimal build of Tomioka?

Here the family:




Some links:
http://mamiya-nc-m42.mflenses.com/m42_mamiya_sx_55_1.4.htm
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/85327-mamiya-dtl-55mm-1-4-opinions-compatabillity-issue.html
http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/RolleiflexSL35E.html
http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/Rollei_QBM_Schneider_dt.html


PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I had a Mamiya Auto Sekor 1.4 and it was definitely a Tomioka design, as the back element was completely flat. I personally saw another one owned by an acquaintance, and while externally identical it had a different optical scheme as the back element was convex.

So I wouldn't generalize and call all Mamiya Tomioka-derived or Tomioka-built lenses. Smile


PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Good point. At some stage flat back element was gone as with all above.
Tomioka named, as-well Rikenons and pre SX Mamiyas still have flat one:
http://www.mu-43.com/f17/fs-rikenon-55mm-f1-4-m42-ex-sigma-k-mount-400mm-f5-6-ug-worldwide-9022/
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/50524-why-no-love-mamiya-sekor.html

Would be nice to compare what changes brought the evolution of back element? Well, i have both versions so good idea for a shootout.

Similar topic already discussed: http://forum.mflenses.com/tomioka-zeiss-mamiya-and-55-1-4-design-t22661.html


PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pancolart wrote:
Good point. At some stage flat back element was gone as with all above.
Tomioka named, as-well Rikenons and pre SX Mamiyas still have flat one:
http://www.mu-43.com/f17/fs-rikenon-55mm-f1-4-m42-ex-sigma-k-mount-400mm-f5-6-ug-worldwide-9022/
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/50524-why-no-love-mamiya-sekor.html

Would be nice to compare what changes brought the evolution of back element? Well, i have both versions so good idea for a shootout.

Similar topic already discussed: http://forum.mflenses.com/tomioka-zeiss-mamiya-and-55-1-4-design-t22661.html


Can you please clarify about the rear elements of your 3 lenses? Are all of them convex?


PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes. 3x the same design without doubt.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pancolart wrote:
Yes. 3x the same design without doubt.


Interesting. As I told before the first Mamiya/Secor lens in my gallery also has convex rear element. It doesn't look like a late model. I would rather bet it is the first model. So an evolution of this lens went from convex rear element to flat rear element to convex rear element once again. The question is whether 2 convex element designs are the same though.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
One more thing to think about. Late Voigtländer is associated with Cosina. Cosina is suspected as one of the late producer of 55/1.4 lenses. May be all these 3 lenses are Cosina made?


PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
dimitrygo wrote:
Pancolart wrote:
Yes. 3x the same design without doubt.


Interesting. As I told before the first Mamiya/Secor lens in my gallery also has convex rear element. It doesn't look like a late model. I would rather bet it is the first model. So an evolution of this lens went from convex rear element to flat rear element to convex rear element once again. The question is whether 2 convex element designs are the same though.


First from top has flat element. I have three such samples. It is very cool you pointed out the rear flat element distinction. If that design is genuine only CHINON remained loyal to it. Even late PK mount lenses have it! The same diameter. And they are the only ones as i can tell. Every other possible Tomioka successor lost it. CHINON is also special about aperture blades set which is distinctive to all others.

I am still not 100% sure regarding COSINA and it's 1.4/55mm line. Later M42 coatings seems really genuine especially that red one available also as PORST REFLEX. But i seriously doubt their lens housings were ever of such high standards as found with Mamiya or Yashica Tomiokas.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pancolart wrote:


First from top has flat element.


Now I am confused. I asked you before if all of them have convex rear element and you said they do. Now you say one of them doesn't. Can you please list all 3 lenses and say what type of rear element each of them has?


PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I was referring to your reply and first Mamiya lens in your gallery. I claim it has flat rear element since older model. Those 3 i posted above are convex.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pancolart wrote:
I was referring to your reply and first Mamiya lens in your gallery. I claim it has flat rear element since older model. Those 3 i posted above are convex.


OK I understood. Be sure this first Maiya/Sekor lens in my gallery has a convex rear element since I have this lens. Actually the lens in the gallery is not mine but mine is identical, including even broken plastic cover of A/M switch.

Last edited by dimitrygo on Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:47 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Could you please point to the exact model please Dimitry so our communication mistake is excluded Smile.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pancolart wrote:
Could you please point to the exact model please Dimitry so our communication mistake is excluded Smile.


I am talking about the very first Maiya/Sekor lens listed in my gallery, that one without a caption. On this photo you can even see its convex rear element:
https://picasaweb.google.com/dimitrygo/55mmF14LensesInAlphabeticalOrder#5563993666487883042


PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Photo doesn't say much but i believe you of course. Went to check upon my collection (again) and was nearly ready to dismiss your claim since all M42 had flat element when i picked beautiful YASHINON-DX serial 5487833 and it had convex rear Smile. Sadly i have only one of this type thus cannot talk about any pattern. But wait it's 50mm not 55mm. It's like this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alexaia/3396600803/

Would there be chance your Mamiya had it's rear element replaced?


PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pancolart wrote:

Would there be chance your Mamiya had it's rear element replaced?


As far as I can conclude from pictures of other lenses the rear element of my lens has different bracing from later Mamiya/Rolleinar lenses and from Yashika 50/1.4 lens. It is identical in every aspect to this lens apart from being convex https://picasaweb.google.com/dimitrygo/55mmF14LensesInAlphabeticalOrder#5422581439576312322


PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have the Mamiya Auto Sekor 1.4 and also the original Tomioka version, called Auto Tominon. I think, this is the same lens.





best regards

Ingo


PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
This Voigtländer Color-Ultron 1.4/55 Click here to see on Ebay.de seems pretty interesting with "Lens made in West Germany" stated as origin. All samples i've seen so far had Japan (Mamiya Rollei too).


PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It has a typical Rollei Design so maybe it's made by Rollei?

Some other "Voigtländer" lenses like the Voigtländer Color Ultron 50/1.8 are identical to 50/1.8 CZ Planar and Rollei Planar HFT 50/1.8
They were Rollei/CZ license copys and produced in both Singapur and West Germany.
And the design of the casing looks very similar to the 55/1.4

Last edited by ForenSeil on Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:21 pm; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think it's only early Japan version and they might be less strict with origin declaration at the time.
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