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RichA
Joined: 17 Feb 2011 Posts: 55
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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:00 am Post subject: Canon 58mm f/1.2 largest change in stopping down? |
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RichA wrote:
This lens shows (of the 200 odd lenses I've owned) one of the largest sharpness changes going from wide open (f/1.2) to stopped down (f/5.6) that I've seen. This was on a Sony NEX-7.
ISO was higher for the second shot as it was getting dark.
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 16472 Location: Weinheim, Germany
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:21 am Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
Not uncommon, especially also for macro lenses, "stop down one stop, but no more" is a common rule _________________ Klaus - Admin
"S'il vient a point, me souviendra" [Thomas Bohier (1460-1523)]
http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums my albums using various lenses
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV BLOG
http://www.travelmeetsfood.com/blog Food + Travel BLOG
https://galeriafotografia.com Architecture + Drone photography
Currently most FAV lens(es):
X80QF f3.2/80mm
Hypergon f11/26mm
ELCAN UV f5.6/52mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f4/60mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f2/62mm
Lomo Уфар-12 f2.5/41mm
Lomo Зуфар-2 f4.0/350mm
Lomo ZIKAR-1A f1.2/100mm
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Zeiss UV-Sonnar f4.3/105mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f1.8/45mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f4.1/94mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f2.8/100mm
Steinheil Quarzobjektiv f1.8/50mm
Pentax Quartz Takumar f3.5/85mm
Carl Zeiss Jena UV-Objektiv f4/60mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha II f1.1/90mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha I f2.8/200mm
COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
COASTAL OPTICS f4.5/105mm UV-Micro-Apo
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
Rodenstock UV-Rodagon f5.6/60mm + 105mm + 150mm
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iangreenhalgh1
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Posts: 15685
Expire: 2014-01-07
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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:16 am Post subject: |
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iangreenhalgh1 wrote:
I had a Canon FL 1.2/58 to play with for a while and I noticed the same thing - it was a mass of uncorrected aberrations wide open, but stopped down they all went away to a large degree. _________________ I don't care who designed it, who made it or what country it comes from - I just enjoy using it! |
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newst
Joined: 21 Oct 2014 Posts: 617 Location: Troy, MI USA
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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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newst wrote:
One thing people who haven't used a super fast lens tend to miss is the razor thin plane of focus available at f/1.2. If you look carefully at the first photograph, along the lower curve where the bud meets the petals, you will see a small segment that is much sharper than the rest of the image. It seems to be most obvious at the patch of green where the stem meets the flower. this is just how super fast lenses behave wide open. _________________ Steve
Just an armadillo on the shoulder of the information superhighway. |
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Pancolart
Joined: 04 Feb 2008 Posts: 3693 Location: Slovenia, EU
Expire: 2013-11-18
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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Pancolart wrote:
Nevertheless something is wrong with first photo. F1.2 should be better even without post-production. _________________ ---------------------------------
The Peculiar Apparatus Of Victorian Steampunk Photography: 100+ Genuine Steampunk Camera Designs https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B92829NS |
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y
Joined: 11 Aug 2013 Posts: 304 Location: EU
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Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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y wrote:
I also think the first picture looks blurry because of the super-thin DoF. Just look at center of the picture - flower's stem. |
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jamaeolus
Joined: 19 Mar 2014 Posts: 2908 Location: Eugene
Expire: 2015-08-20
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:12 am Post subject: |
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jamaeolus wrote:
I agree if you look at the edge of the petal to the right of the gap you can see a pretty sharp line. Its obviously not as sharp as the second photo but that is how most superfast lenses from the era seem to me. I was using my Konica 57 1.2 recently and its the same way. I also have the Canon 55mm 1.2 and is a bit better but when Canon came out with the 50mm 1.2 the corrections are much better. If time permits I will show an example. The Minolta MC 58 1.2 is supposed to be amongst the sharpest of the superfast from that era, I also hear and see samples from the Oly that are intriguing.
Here is a shot taken with a tripod wide open with the Konica 57mm 1.2.
and the crop of where I was focused.
Other than resize and crop these are unedited. _________________ photos are moments frozen in time
Last edited by jamaeolus on Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:13 am; edited 2 times in total |
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RichA
Joined: 17 Feb 2011 Posts: 55
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:08 am Post subject: |
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RichA wrote:
newst wrote: |
One thing people who haven't used a super fast lens tend to miss is the razor thin plane of focus available at f/1.2. If you look carefully at the first photograph, along the lower curve where the bud meets the petals, you will see a small segment that is much sharper than the rest of the image. It seems to be most obvious at the patch of green where the stem meets the flower. this is just how super fast lenses behave wide open. |
I've used Nikon and Olympus f/1.2 lenses in the past and Schneider 25 f/0.95 and 50mm f/0.95. The main issue with all the older lenses is spherical aberration, something now corrected pretty well with molded plastic aspheric elements. |
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jamaeolus
Joined: 19 Mar 2014 Posts: 2908 Location: Eugene
Expire: 2015-08-20
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:16 am Post subject: |
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jamaeolus wrote:
RichA wrote: |
newst wrote: |
One thing people who haven't used a super fast lens tend to miss is the razor thin plane of focus available at f/1.2. If you look carefully at the first photograph, along the lower curve where the bud meets the petals, you will see a small segment that is much sharper than the rest of the image. It seems to be most obvious at the patch of green where the stem meets the flower. this is just how super fast lenses behave wide open. |
I've used Nikon and Olympus f/1.2 lenses in the past and Schneider 25 f/0.95 and 50mm f/0.95. The main issue with all the older lenses is spherical aberration, something now corrected pretty well with molded plastic aspheric elements. |
I agree, and I believe that is why the Canon Aspherical version of their 50mm 1.2 commands such high prices. _________________ photos are moments frozen in time |
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jamaeolus
Joined: 19 Mar 2014 Posts: 2908 Location: Eugene
Expire: 2015-08-20
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:17 am Post subject: |
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jamaeolus wrote:
Here is the crop with a minor tweak to contrast and sharpness:
_________________ photos are moments frozen in time |
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visualopsins
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 10427 Location: California
Expire: 2021-06-22
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:58 am Post subject: |
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visualopsins wrote:
Light entering the outermost portion of the front element is what the aperture cuts off. An opaque disk can block the inner portion of the front element. The lens' "fast glass" performance can be evaluated thus...
I agree narrow dof gets mistaken for not sharp, and close enough for that narrow dof sperical aberration only adds to mistake. _________________ ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮ like attracts like! ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
Cameras: Sony A7Rii, Spotmatics II, F, and ESII, Nikon P4
M42 Asahi Optical Co., Lenses:
Takumar 1:4 f=35mm, 1:2 f=58mm (Sonnar), 1:2.4 f=58mm (Heliar), 1:2.2 f=55mm (Gaussian), 1:2.8 f=105mm (Model I), 1:2.8/105 (Model II), 1:5.6/200
Tele-Takumar 1:5.6/200, 1:6.3/300
Macro-Takumar 1:4/50
Auto-Takumar 1:2.3 f=35, 1:1.8 f=55mm, 1:2.2 f=55mm
Super-TAKUMAR 1:3.5/28 (fat), 1:2/35 (Fat), 1:1.4/50 (8-element),
Super-Multi-Coated Fisheye-TAKUMAR 1:4/17
Super-Multi-Coated TAKUMAR 1:4.5/20, 1:3.5/24, 1:3.5/28, 1:2/35, 1:3.5/35, 1:1.8/85, 1:1.9/85 1:2.8/105, 1:3.5/135, 1:2.5/135 (II), 1:4/150, 1:4/200, 1:4/300, 1:4.5/500
Super-Multi-Coated Macro-TAKUMAR 1:4/50, 1:4/100
Super-Multi-Coated Bellows-TAKUMAR 1:4/100
SMC TAKUMAR 1:1.4/50, 1:1.8/55
Other lenses:
Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 2.4/35
SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:3.5 35~105mm, SMC PENTAX ZOOM 1:4 45~125mm
Nikon Micro-NIKKOR-P-C Auto 1:3.5 f=55mm, NIKKOR-P Auto 105mm f/2.5 Pre-AI (Sonnar), Micro-NIKKOR 105mm 1:4 AI, NIKKOR AI-S 35-135mm f/3,5-4,5
Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51B), Tamron SP 17mm f/3.5 (51BB), SP 500mm f/8 (55BB), SP 70-210mm f/3.5 (19AH)
Vivitar 100mm 1:2.8 MC 1:1 Macro Telephoto
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RichA
Joined: 17 Feb 2011 Posts: 55
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:17 am Post subject: |
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RichA wrote:
jamaeolus wrote: |
Here is the crop with a minor tweak to contrast and sharpness:
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It looks good. Similar to the Olympus 50mm f/1.2. The only older lenses that are fast that used hand-ground aspherical surface were the Noct-Nikkor and the Leica Noctilux, both which have very high prices. |
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tb_a
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 3678 Location: Austria
Expire: 2019-08-28
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:52 am Post subject: |
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tb_a wrote:
jamaeolus wrote: |
The Minolta MC 58 1.2 is supposed to be amongst the sharpest of the superfast from that era, I also hear and see samples from the Oly that are intriguing. |
Can't say anything about the Olympus lens but I would agree that the Minolta MC 58/1.2 is able to deliver sharp and contrasty pictures even wide open.
Here is an example of my MC (Version II) introduced 1969:
At least I find it slightly better than my Pentax-K SMC 50/1.2 which was introduced 1975:
Both pictures shot at F1.2 and converted/resized at exactly the same conditions without manipulations to enable direct comparison. Focus was set to the red rose in the middle. _________________ Thomas Bernardy
Manual focus lenses mainly from Minolta, Pentax, Voigtlaender, Leitz, Topcon and from Russia (too many to be listed here). |
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TrueLoveOne
Joined: 30 Sep 2012 Posts: 1840 Location: Netherlands
Expire: 2013-12-24
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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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TrueLoveOne wrote:
I've had the Canon 50mm f/1.2, an impressive lens. I still have the Minolta 1.2/58 and a Porst branded Fujinon 1.2/50. Still have to make some shots with the latter.....
Here are 2 Canon 50mm f/1.2 samples wide open:
Playing Wii games (f/1.2) by René Maly, on Flickr
Tired dog.... by René Maly, on Flickr _________________ My Flickr photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/chantalrene/
Sony A7, Canon 5D mkII, Minolta 7D + RD3000 and some more.....
Minolta and Konica collector.... slowly selling all the other stuff! |
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Lightshow
Joined: 04 Nov 2011 Posts: 3669 Location: Calgary
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Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Lightshow wrote:
I agree, that first shot should be sharper, the 58 has quite the SA, much more than the 55 that replaced it, a very artistic lens wide open. _________________ A Manual Focus Junky...
One photographers junk lens is an artists favorite tool.
My lens list
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightshow-photography/ |
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stevemark
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 Posts: 3747 Location: Switzerland
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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stevemark wrote:
The Canon FL 1.2/58mm is quite sharp in the center, wide open at f1.2. I'll post an image later.
Something is wrong either with the lens or the image (e. g. focusing)!
Stephan _________________ www.artaphot.ch |
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Jtrcy
Joined: 05 Mar 2017 Posts: 14
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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Jtrcy wrote:
I'm awaiting a FL 58mm f1.2 I bought on impulse after KEH offered it for $144 shipped. I've previously owned a couple Canon FL 55mm f1.2 lenses and both were excellent performers. To my eye, they were a tad sharper wide open compared to my Rokkor 58mm f1.2 with maybe a tad less of the magic.
I think the FL 55 1.2's are the best value in fast 5o's these days as they can be easily sourced at between $150-190.
I sold my FL55 after getting a focal reducer to use with my Rokkor MD 85 f1.7. The 85 gained a ton of sharpness reduced and was much better wide open compared to the 55 and about the same field of view.
Bought the FL 58mm simply out of simple lens curiosity knowing I could easily recoup my investment in it locally via CL...
Love the build quality of the Canon FL lenses. Funny thing is, you'd think they might suffer from low contrast due to the much older coatings, but in testing my FL 55mm f1.2 compared to a variety of Minolta Rokkor 50mm f1.4s (MC PF, MD-x and MD) I found the much older Canon had better contrast and edge to edge sharpness than any of the Rokkors.
Julian |
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