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Canon 58mm f/1.2 largest change in stopping down?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:00 am    Post subject: Canon 58mm f/1.2 largest change in stopping down? Reply with quote

This lens shows (of the 200 odd lenses I've owned) one of the largest sharpness changes going from wide open (f/1.2) to stopped down (f/5.6) that I've seen. This was on a Sony NEX-7.
ISO was higher for the second shot as it was getting dark.




PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not uncommon, especially also for macro lenses, "stop down one stop, but no more" is a common rule


PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a Canon FL 1.2/58 to play with for a while and I noticed the same thing - it was a mass of uncorrected aberrations wide open, but stopped down they all went away to a large degree.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing people who haven't used a super fast lens tend to miss is the razor thin plane of focus available at f/1.2. If you look carefully at the first photograph, along the lower curve where the bud meets the petals, you will see a small segment that is much sharper than the rest of the image. It seems to be most obvious at the patch of green where the stem meets the flower. this is just how super fast lenses behave wide open.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nevertheless something is wrong with first photo. F1.2 should be better even without post-production.


PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also think the first picture looks blurry because of the super-thin DoF. Just look at center of the picture - flower's stem.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree if you look at the edge of the petal to the right of the gap you can see a pretty sharp line. Its obviously not as sharp as the second photo but that is how most superfast lenses from the era seem to me. I was using my Konica 57 1.2 recently and its the same way. I also have the Canon 55mm 1.2 and is a bit better but when Canon came out with the 50mm 1.2 the corrections are much better. If time permits I will show an example. The Minolta MC 58 1.2 is supposed to be amongst the sharpest of the superfast from that era, I also hear and see samples from the Oly that are intriguing.

Here is a shot taken with a tripod wide open with the Konica 57mm 1.2.


and the crop of where I was focused.


Other than resize and crop these are unedited.


Last edited by jamaeolus on Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:13 am; edited 2 times in total


PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

newst wrote:
One thing people who haven't used a super fast lens tend to miss is the razor thin plane of focus available at f/1.2. If you look carefully at the first photograph, along the lower curve where the bud meets the petals, you will see a small segment that is much sharper than the rest of the image. It seems to be most obvious at the patch of green where the stem meets the flower. this is just how super fast lenses behave wide open.


I've used Nikon and Olympus f/1.2 lenses in the past and Schneider 25 f/0.95 and 50mm f/0.95. The main issue with all the older lenses is spherical aberration, something now corrected pretty well with molded plastic aspheric elements.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichA wrote:
newst wrote:
One thing people who haven't used a super fast lens tend to miss is the razor thin plane of focus available at f/1.2. If you look carefully at the first photograph, along the lower curve where the bud meets the petals, you will see a small segment that is much sharper than the rest of the image. It seems to be most obvious at the patch of green where the stem meets the flower. this is just how super fast lenses behave wide open.


I've used Nikon and Olympus f/1.2 lenses in the past and Schneider 25 f/0.95 and 50mm f/0.95. The main issue with all the older lenses is spherical aberration, something now corrected pretty well with molded plastic aspheric elements.


I agree, and I believe that is why the Canon Aspherical version of their 50mm 1.2 commands such high prices.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the crop with a minor tweak to contrast and sharpness:


PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Light entering the outermost portion of the front element is what the aperture cuts off. An opaque disk can block the inner portion of the front element. The lens' "fast glass" performance can be evaluated thus...

I agree narrow dof gets mistaken for not sharp, and close enough for that narrow dof sperical aberration only adds to mistake.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jamaeolus wrote:
Here is the crop with a minor tweak to contrast and sharpness:


It looks good. Similar to the Olympus 50mm f/1.2. The only older lenses that are fast that used hand-ground aspherical surface were the Noct-Nikkor and the Leica Noctilux, both which have very high prices.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jamaeolus wrote:
The Minolta MC 58 1.2 is supposed to be amongst the sharpest of the superfast from that era, I also hear and see samples from the Oly that are intriguing.


Can't say anything about the Olympus lens but I would agree that the Minolta MC 58/1.2 is able to deliver sharp and contrasty pictures even wide open.
Here is an example of my MC (Version II) introduced 1969:



At least I find it slightly better than my Pentax-K SMC 50/1.2 which was introduced 1975:



Both pictures shot at F1.2 and converted/resized at exactly the same conditions without manipulations to enable direct comparison. Focus was set to the red rose in the middle.


PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had the Canon 50mm f/1.2, an impressive lens. I still have the Minolta 1.2/58 and a Porst branded Fujinon 1.2/50. Still have to make some shots with the latter.....
Here are 2 Canon 50mm f/1.2 samples wide open:

Playing Wii games (f/1.2) by René Maly, on Flickr

Tired dog.... by René Maly, on Flickr


PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, that first shot should be sharper, the 58 has quite the SA, much more than the 55 that replaced it, a very artistic lens wide open.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Canon FL 1.2/58mm is quite sharp in the center, wide open at f1.2. I'll post an image later.

Something is wrong either with the lens or the image (e. g. focusing)!

Stephan


PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm awaiting a FL 58mm f1.2 I bought on impulse after KEH offered it for $144 shipped. I've previously owned a couple Canon FL 55mm f1.2 lenses and both were excellent performers. To my eye, they were a tad sharper wide open compared to my Rokkor 58mm f1.2 with maybe a tad less of the magic.

I think the FL 55 1.2's are the best value in fast 5o's these days as they can be easily sourced at between $150-190.

I sold my FL55 after getting a focal reducer to use with my Rokkor MD 85 f1.7. The 85 gained a ton of sharpness reduced and was much better wide open compared to the 55 and about the same field of view.

Bought the FL 58mm simply out of simple lens curiosity knowing I could easily recoup my investment in it locally via CL...

Love the build quality of the Canon FL lenses. Funny thing is, you'd think they might suffer from low contrast due to the much older coatings, but in testing my FL 55mm f1.2 compared to a variety of Minolta Rokkor 50mm f1.4s (MC PF, MD-x and MD) I found the much older Canon had better contrast and edge to edge sharpness than any of the Rokkors.

Julian