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ARGUS C Tele-Sandmar 100mm F4,5
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:14 am    Post subject: ARGUS C Tele-Sandmar 100mm F4,5 Reply with quote

Got this tiny lens in the mail today.






C ARGUS Tele-Sandmar 100mm F4,5 No.54397

U.S. Patent No.2631497 Other pats. pend.
Enna-Werk Munchen U.S. Zone Germany


Diaphragm has 10 blades and clicks from f4,5 till f22.

Looks cool.
Is it M42?

Please share if you know something about it.

BR,
Stefan


PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess it is for ARGUS cameras, I don't think it will suit an SLR.

Anyway, I am always surprised when people buy lenses that have never heard them before and asking others for information after they bought them.


PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a DSLR .. so it will be useful for the Nex.

As for the reason the lens looks old and the price was right.


PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have two of these. One is among my collectibles, along with a Sandmar 35/4.5, with caps, hoods, viewer, and cases, all pristine. The other isn't so pristine, but is among my most-used lenses on my Pentax K20D. Someone here suggested using a 42-43mm step ring as an M42 adapter but it didn't quite fit, and I can't find any 42-44mm rings. So I dremeled a suitable hole (about 42mm) in a PK body cap and glued the lens into place in the cap. It works like a charm.

And the lens definitely gives a 'period' look to photos. Because it is so small (with the metal lens hood off) it doesn't appear to be a telephoto lens. So I could, for example, stand in a shaded nook in San Francisco's Chinatown and shoot passersby without inciting undue alarm. At least, nobody hit me. Wink

ObTech: Rear thread is ~33mm. The knurled rim just ahead of the thread is ~42mm diameter and is the base for gluing an adapter, whether a body cap or in impossible-to-find step ring. Lens register for the Argus C3 mount seems to be ~37mm, quite a bit less than the PK 45.46mm register. But when in place, the lens base only extends ~1mm past the body-cap's plastic bayonets, and does not foul the SLR mirror. Note: I used a thin coat of GorillaGlue, which has better grip than contact cement.

Yes, it is quite possible to adapt the tiny Tele-Sandmar to the fairly unforgiving PK mount. This trick plus a PK-EOS adapter should allow its use on a Canon platform. Have fun with your new little gem!


PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the extensive report RioRico Very Happy

Even hand held it looks sharp, and judging by the rendering (it looks similar to a Steinheil Culminar 4.5 135mm) it should be a 4 element lens.

Size is good too. It's not bigger than a USB flash drive - not bad for a 100mm telephoto.

Any clue about when it was produced?
Shortly after WWII i guess.


PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good choice then!

I bet it it's 10-blade diaphragm will give some interesting bokeh!


PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the bokeh is wonderful! Crispness is good wide-open with satisfying dimensionality at f/4.5-f/5.6, and is very sharp at f/8-f/11.

A four-element lens? Is it possible to build a four-element 100mm lens with 135/FF frame coverage in a body just 40mm long? And the body weighs just 110g!

Both of mine say ENNA MUNCHEN U.S. ZONE GERMANY so I think they probably date from the early 1950's. Remember that the Argus C3 was an EXTREMELY popular camera for several decades, and the Enna wide+tele lens set (35mm and 100mm f/4.4) with finder were not uncommon, and were probably made for many years.

IMHO the Tele-Sandmar is a real sleeper. I am tempted to buy several, add M42 or PK bases, and resell them as hidden gems. Or maybe I will just enjoy what I have!


PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a set of these Ennas made for Argus also -

http://forum.mflenses.com/argus-c3-and-its-lenses-t27812.html

And I also hang out in San Francisco's Chinatown sometimes !

Best I think would be to get the proper camera for it, an Argus C3. The combination works very well, its an easy and quite accurate integration between the Argus rangefinder and the tele lens, which is not always successful.

The 100mm looks like a 4-element lens. Its certainly possible to make one that small, I have plenty of these for MF that are even smaller.

The 100mm also focuses very close btw (and closer yet on a PK mounting of course). What maximum focus do you get on PK ?


PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With my PK body-cap mount, far-focus is infinity, and near-focus is about 85cm / 34 inches.

As for C3's, I have two, each of different vintage, each with a different 50/3.5 kit lens -- one has a plain Cintar, the other a Coated Cintar. And I despise the C3 because of the gears! Yes, those gears that give it the 'technicall' look. Same reason I despise the Kodak 35 rangefinder with the massive military-looking gear housing. The gears constantly jam. Damn them!

Anyway, I'm looking for a nice cheap beat-up Sandmar 35/4.5, one that's not as pretty as the one I have, so I can try a PK or M42 adaptation on it. Such will probably require a 42-44mm step ring if possible, or maybe a 42-43mm ring with the larger-diameter side ground out to fit. The 35/4.5, or those 50/3.5's, look much trickier to non-destructively adapt to Pentax mount. Ah yes, another challenge...

I also have another Argus 100mm lens, this one Labeled Argus Cintagon 100/3.5, in C44 bayonet mount. Lens is by Steinheil-Munchen -- nothing about US Zone, so it's a bit later, of course. Like the Sandmars, all markings are in English not Metric units, so it was meant for for USA trade. The Steinheil is much larger than the Enna Tele-Sandmar, about the 'normal' size of a 100mm lens for 35mm film cameras. It looks to also be a candidate for a 42-44mm step-ring adaptation. I just need to find the rings.

Lens size: I too have MF folder lenses that are smaller, but the bellows give them extension for the focal length. Withe the Tele-Sandmar mounted on a PK camera, the front element at infinity focus is only about 85mm from the film plane. It is by far the shortest 100mm lens for 135/FF camera that I have seen. But large holes exist in my optics knowledge, so anything is possible, eh?


PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dsmlogger wrote:
Anyway, I am always surprised when people buy lenses that have never heard them before and asking others for information after they bought them.


But, it`s not forbidden, right?
It`s their choise after all, you shouldn`t be worried about it.


PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We must agree to disagree about the Argus C3
Mine don't jam, and I find it quite easy to use the gear.

Thank you for the suggestion of putting these on body caps. I am quite amazed that you can get infinity, and I am definitely going to try it.


PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

luisalegria wrote:
Thank you for the suggestion of putting these on body caps. I am quite amazed that you can get infinity, and I am definitely going to try it.

When I get a non-Pentaxable lens, I ask some questions. Is its base narrow enough to stick down a PK-mount's throat? Does it look like a close or possible fit? If I focus the lens to infinity and hold it up to a lenseless SLR, what is the far-focus as seen through the viewfinder? (Yes, some old PK and M42 SLRs *are* useful, even without film!)

And how far back into the camera chamber does the lens protrude? If the protrusion is less than the maximum depth of flags and protrusions on PK lenses that *do* work (about 6-7mm), then the lens is a candidate for a body-cap adapter.

Also, enlarger and projector lenses with non-standard mounts are most cheaply adapted with dremeled one-buck body caps. Cheaper and faster than ordering and waiting for bizarre step-rings.

For longer-register or larger-base lenses, another adapter trick involves macro tubes. I mostly use cheap PK tubes, with modular mount and ring sections. These cost about US$8 per set (shipped) -- I have maybe 4 or 5 sets. A 60-mm inner-diameter ring section can be contact-cemented to a wide lens body, then used with mount sections on bellows, tubes, or straight-to-camera. Yeah, I make every attempt to find *some* use for all my lenses. Wink


PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of my favorite sets of yours, Luis! Congrats, RioRico!


PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look on ebay for the adapter to you digital its there. 33mm> your digital Indeed its 33mm screw thread. The lens = 150mm on aps-c chips in a tiny package, yielding great bokehlicious wide open portraits.careful manual 7x focus on eyes will please the worst critic. Old lenses are like old fine wine, full of character.


PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: ARGUS C Tele-Sandmar 100mm F4,5 Reply with quote

std wrote:
Got this tiny lens in the mail today.






C ARGUS Tele-Sandmar 100mm F4,5 No.54397

U.S. Patent No.2631497 Other pats. pend.
Enna-Werk Munchen U.S. Zone Germany


Diaphragm has 10 blades and clicks from f4,5 till f22.

Looks cool.
Is it M42? Answer= 33x1mm screw thread

Please share if you know something about it.

BR,
Stefan


PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote




Tele-Sandmar by Enna. Great ultra compact aluminium lens. Shot wide open on Sony Nex 7 at 5.9x manual focus on a RW adapter off eBay. notice the Bokeh characteristic in the flowers fuzz? this is a 50% crop of a 24 meg file, little evidence of CA present in this recent photo. Enna made great lenses, especially for Exakta cameras. A great legacy lens that is often over looked, because it was made for a Argus C3, which was NOT considered a good rangefinder in its day, but actually if the rangefinder collimation was good, turned out good photos. Alas this Enna Werk glass was far better than the camera it was made for! Regards, Don


PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like 1


PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eastwestphoto wrote:

Tele-Sandmar by Enna. Great ultra compact aluminium lens. Shot wide open on Sony Nex 7 at 5.9x manual focus on a RW adapter off eBay. notice the Bokeh characteristic in the flowers fuzz? this is a 50% crop of a 24 meg file, little evidence of CA present in this recent photo. Enna made great lenses, especially for Exakta cameras. A great legacy lens that is often over looked, because it was made for a Argus C3, which was NOT considered a good rangefinder in its day, but actually if the rangefinder collimation was good, turned out good photos. Alas this Enna Werk glass was far better than the camera it was made for! Regards, Don


Not sure if you are still reading on this forum. If so, can you please let me know what the RW adapter you are using?
I couldn't find it on ebay. I know a guy is selling many customized adapter but his store doesn't seem to have it.
A such an adapter for the 35mm f/4.5 lens does exist but I am not sure why the seller says it doesn't fit A7ii (no
message response from him either). Thanks for any information.


PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adapters for Argus lenses have their problems. I bought one from the US to fit on to M39. It fits, but you have got to set infinity focus manually. And focusing (on a film camera) must be done by scale. The scale is on the Argus camera. So although it will work on digital, I can't use it on film - which is half my photography.

Anyone here tried to change an Argus C3 lens in the field? What a nightmare. Thats why God invented bayonet fit!


PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philslizzy wrote:
adapters for Argus lenses have their problems. I bought one from the US to fit on to M39. It fits, but you have got to set infinity focus manually. And focusing (on a film camera) must be done by scale. The scale is on the Argus camera. So although it will work on digital, I can't use it on film - which is half my photography.

Anyone here tried to change an Argus C3 lens in the field? What a nightmare. Thats why God invented bayonet fit!


Oh well, it is quite awkward that I am not able to try this lens out. Will need to find alternative solution!


PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vivaldibow wrote:
philslizzy wrote:
adapters for Argus lenses have their problems. I bought one from the US to fit on to M39. It fits, but you have got to set infinity focus manually. And focusing (on a film camera) must be done by scale. The scale is on the Argus camera. So although it will work on digital, I can't use it on film - which is half my photography.

Anyone here tried to change an Argus C3 lens in the field? What a nightmare. Thats why God invented bayonet fit!


Oh well, it is quite awkward that I am not able to try this lens out. Will need to find alternative solution!


Here's how I managed to use a Cintar from my C3 on my Sony NEX5. This method will work with practically any mirrorless. The back focus of the lens will be too short for a DSLR.

A piece of 1mm thick plastic card. I used modelmaker's 'plasticard' or an old plastic gift card will do. Cut a hole in it wide enough for the screw thread of the lens about 33mm. I managed to screw mine into it, it looked firm enough but I fixed it from behind with some hot glue.

Next get a helicoid, to hold your lens at a minimum distance of 40mm. A 17-31 mm is perfect (your camera fitting on one end and M42 on the other. An m42-m42 will need an additional adaptor). Trim the card round so that it looks nice against the helical. My helical has M42 thread so I glued on the back of it, round the Argus lens, a m39 to m42 ring. Again hot glue works just fine, make sure its pushed well into the m39 threads. When it's cold, screw the whole thing onto the helical. Focus using the helical.

I originally used a Konica F bayonet adaptor, mounted the plasticard directly on to the front of the adaptor, hot glued it inside and focused using the lens.

The Argus lens has a flange focal of 41.9mm, the konica has 40.5mm, so that was perfect. The other adaptors would be too long.

I have a spare Minolta adaptor which didn't always latch the lens properly so I took off the Minolta bayonet and it reduces the FFD to about 40mm, again perfect to adapt your lens, like I did with the Konica adaptor. Or indeed any other.

So there are three options open to you. Good luck.

Hot glue is a great way to stick lenses and adaptors together temporarily. I often paint the inside black as it's translucent. It pulls out cleanly when you have finished with it.

I suspect the lens was one I was watching on ebay. Buying from the US for me is an expensive option. for example the $23 C3-M39 adaptor I mentioned earlier cost about $50 by the time it was delivered. That's why I didn't jump to buy the 100, despite Argus lenses being quite rare.