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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57849
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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 Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
pre-war exactly I do remember for your purchase now.
Most rare and valuable one.
this is early post -war slim biotar
http://www.mflenses.com/carl-zeiss-jena-biotar-75mm-f15-lens-review.html
http://www.mflenses.com/gallery/v/german/zeiss/carl_zeiss_jena_biotar/biotar_75mm_f1_5/
_________________
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Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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nixland
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 577
Expire: 2012-07-29
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:18 am Post subject: |
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nixland wrote:
Thank you Attila & exaklaus for the complete version info.
I am asking because, like luisalegria said, there are 3 items on ebay with different price, $850, $1,097 and $3,450.
So is it worth it if I take the cheapest one?
By the way, I have Meyer-Optik 135mm f/2.8 with Exakta mount which the protrude black ring part of the mount made my 5D mirror stucked (luckily I finally found M42 mount that could replaced the Exakta mount on this Meyer lens).
But how about the Exakta mount on this Biotar, is it fixed mount?
Thank you All. |
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6627
Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:30 am Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
Personal opinion, the Biotar 75 is much too expensive for what it is, no matter what version.
The price these days is so high because of collectors.
If you want a portrait lens with a large aperture, to use not collect, I suggest you try the Samyang 85mm. I have seen excellent results from that.
The lens mount is part of the complete rear tube that holds part of the helical, so it is hard to replace. Some people have the rear tube machined to replace the Exakta mount with M42. But you really shouldn't have to do that. There are good Exakta - Canon adapters.
The only real problem is the Praktina version. It should be possible to have a machinist make a Praktina adapter - I have some ideas how to do that - but it would be expensive.
_________________
I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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nixland
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 577
Expire: 2012-07-29
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:43 am Post subject: |
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nixland wrote:
| luisalegria wrote: |
Personal opinion, the Biotar 75 is much too expensive for what it is, no matter what version.
The price these days is so high because of collectors.
If you want a portrait lens with a large aperture, to use not collect, I suggest you try the Samyang 85mm. I have seen excellent results from that.
The lens mount is part of the complete rear tube that holds part of the helical, so it is hard to replace. Some people have the rear tube machined to replace the Exakta mount with M42. But you really shouldn't have to do that. There are good Exakta - Canon adapters.
The only real problem is the Praktina version. It should be possible to have a machinist make a Praktina adapter - I have some ideas how to do that - but it would be expensive. |
Thank you very much for the complete info. |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57849
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:57 am Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
Basically all 85mm lenses are good and all perfect for portraits, they go from 100 USD to sky. If you can afford take a Biotar 75mm any .. nice to own a legend. They are like cars all have wheels, engine all transport you to A to B... people buy different ones based on their budget. I still keep my Biotars even if they fetch high price and I can replace them with cheap ones like Samyang.
_________________
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Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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nixland
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 577
Expire: 2012-07-29
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:48 am Post subject: |
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nixland wrote:
Yeahhhh..... I finally got this famous Biotar 75mm. Its very expensive but my curiousity cant stop me buying the lens 
I got the fat Biotar in super mint condition. So its the pre-war right?
The sharpness is OK.
The "miraculous" thing is it's M42 mount and does not hit my 5D mirror!! Yeahh:)
I'm gonna play with this lens for a while and taming its wild bokeh before I post the review.
My question is : it there any M42 mount for later Biotar (post-war, slim body) that does not hit 5D mirror? Just curious to know because Attila said its sharper than the fat one/pre-war.
_________________
Carl Zeiss Jena: Biotar 58/2 1Q, DDR Pancolar 80/1.8 MC, Biotar 75/1.5, Biotar 10cm/2, DDR Sonnar 135/3.5 MC
Carl Zeiss C/Y: Planar 50/1.4 T*, Planar 85/1.4 T*, Planar 100/2 T*, Sonnar 135/2.8 T*
Leica: Summicron-R 35/2 v1, Summicron-R 50/2, Summilux-R 80/1.4, Summicron-R 90/2
Pentax: A 50/1.2
Minolta: Rokkor MC 58/1.2, Rokkor MC 85/1.7, Rokkor MC 100/2, MD 200/2.8
Olympus: Zuiko MC Auto-W 21/2, Zuiko 50/1.2, Zuiko MC Auto-T 85/2, Zuiko Auto-T 100/2
Nikon: Nikkor 28/2.8 Ais, Nikkor 85/1.8, Nikkor 105/1.8, 300/2.8 ED (Ais)
Canon: FD 50/1.2 L, FD 85/1.2 L
Sony: 135/2.8 STF
Jupiter: 85/2 Alu
Cyclop: 85/1.5
Meyer-Optic: Trioplan 100/2.8, Orestor 100/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5
Samyang: 8/3.5 FE, 14/2.8, 85/1.4, 85/1.4 UMC
FOR SALE
Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 10cm/2 || Carl Zeiss ZE Distagon 28/2 || Minolta Rokkor MD 35/1.8 || Rokkor-X MC 85/1.7 || Rokkor MD 85/1.7 || Olympus Zuiko MC Auto-W 21/2 || Olympus 100/2 || Nikon Nikkor 35/1.4 || Canon: FD 55/1.2 || Vivitar 90/2.5 Series 1 VMC || Tamron: 90/2.5 SP
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nixland
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 577
Expire: 2012-07-29
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:13 am Post subject: |
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nixland wrote:
Its 1Q type. I measured its length, its 7,5 cm long.
_________________
Carl Zeiss Jena: Biotar 58/2 1Q, DDR Pancolar 80/1.8 MC, Biotar 75/1.5, Biotar 10cm/2, DDR Sonnar 135/3.5 MC
Carl Zeiss C/Y: Planar 50/1.4 T*, Planar 85/1.4 T*, Planar 100/2 T*, Sonnar 135/2.8 T*
Leica: Summicron-R 35/2 v1, Summicron-R 50/2, Summilux-R 80/1.4, Summicron-R 90/2
Pentax: A 50/1.2
Minolta: Rokkor MC 58/1.2, Rokkor MC 85/1.7, Rokkor MC 100/2, MD 200/2.8
Olympus: Zuiko MC Auto-W 21/2, Zuiko 50/1.2, Zuiko MC Auto-T 85/2, Zuiko Auto-T 100/2
Nikon: Nikkor 28/2.8 Ais, Nikkor 85/1.8, Nikkor 105/1.8, 300/2.8 ED (Ais)
Canon: FD 50/1.2 L, FD 85/1.2 L
Sony: 135/2.8 STF
Jupiter: 85/2 Alu
Cyclop: 85/1.5
Meyer-Optic: Trioplan 100/2.8, Orestor 100/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5
Samyang: 8/3.5 FE, 14/2.8, 85/1.4, 85/1.4 UMC
FOR SALE
Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 10cm/2 || Carl Zeiss ZE Distagon 28/2 || Minolta Rokkor MD 35/1.8 || Rokkor-X MC 85/1.7 || Rokkor MD 85/1.7 || Olympus Zuiko MC Auto-W 21/2 || Olympus 100/2 || Nikon Nikkor 35/1.4 || Canon: FD 55/1.2 || Vivitar 90/2.5 Series 1 VMC || Tamron: 90/2.5 SP
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6627
Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:31 am Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
Yours is like mine, but in better condition. It looks good.
The fat Biotars are postwar, 1950's.
You can find the year, more or less, from the serial number.
_________________
I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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nixland
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 577
Expire: 2012-07-29
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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nixland wrote:
| luisalegria wrote: |
The fat Biotars are postwar, 1950's.
You can find the year, more or less, from the serial number. |
Argghh ... I mixed up the pre & post war
Thanks for the info about serial number. It starts with number 58xxxxx.
_________________
Carl Zeiss Jena: Biotar 58/2 1Q, DDR Pancolar 80/1.8 MC, Biotar 75/1.5, Biotar 10cm/2, DDR Sonnar 135/3.5 MC
Carl Zeiss C/Y: Planar 50/1.4 T*, Planar 85/1.4 T*, Planar 100/2 T*, Sonnar 135/2.8 T*
Leica: Summicron-R 35/2 v1, Summicron-R 50/2, Summilux-R 80/1.4, Summicron-R 90/2
Pentax: A 50/1.2
Minolta: Rokkor MC 58/1.2, Rokkor MC 85/1.7, Rokkor MC 100/2, MD 200/2.8
Olympus: Zuiko MC Auto-W 21/2, Zuiko 50/1.2, Zuiko MC Auto-T 85/2, Zuiko Auto-T 100/2
Nikon: Nikkor 28/2.8 Ais, Nikkor 85/1.8, Nikkor 105/1.8, 300/2.8 ED (Ais)
Canon: FD 50/1.2 L, FD 85/1.2 L
Sony: 135/2.8 STF
Jupiter: 85/2 Alu
Cyclop: 85/1.5
Meyer-Optic: Trioplan 100/2.8, Orestor 100/2.8, Primotar 135/3.5
Samyang: 8/3.5 FE, 14/2.8, 85/1.4, 85/1.4 UMC
FOR SALE
Carl Zeiss Jena Biotar 10cm/2 || Carl Zeiss ZE Distagon 28/2 || Minolta Rokkor MD 35/1.8 || Rokkor-X MC 85/1.7 || Rokkor MD 85/1.7 || Olympus Zuiko MC Auto-W 21/2 || Olympus 100/2 || Nikon Nikkor 35/1.4 || Canon: FD 55/1.2 || Vivitar 90/2.5 Series 1 VMC || Tamron: 90/2.5 SP
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luisalegria
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6627
Location: San Francisco, USA
Expire: 2018-01-18
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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luisalegria wrote:
It seems that 1959-1960 would be a good estimate for yours -
5,000,000-6,000,000: 1958-1961
_________________
I like Pentax DSLR's, Exaktas, M42 bodies of all kinds, strange and cheap Japanese lenses, and am dabbling in medium format/Speed Graphic work. |
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kitson306
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 5
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:14 am Post subject: Pre-war Biotar in M42 |
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kitson306 wrote:
Hi there, I've been researching my biotar have come across this post. I think all the experts of biotars are here and hope you guys can help.
From the photos I see, I'm sure it's a PRE-WAR Version.
Serial number starts at 2688XXX.... so roughly 1941
Weight is 416g, the lighter of the lens.
no T coating
7,5 cm ...not 75 mm
mount: M42!!! now this is where I get confused!!
I've searched high and low and cannot find anything on a Pre-war biotar with M42 mount.
If does not look like it's switched of fabricated. Seems to be original from the factory.
Do you guys think this is a Prototype? Definitely a collector's item i would think.
Any info would be great! Also value of the lens.. it's in pretty good condition.
I'm in Hong Kong and if anyone's near by, they can come have a look!
Cheers,
Kitson
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exaklaus
Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 1633
Location: Niederrhein, Germany
Expire: 2011-12-02
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:39 am Post subject: |
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exaklaus wrote:
Nice one. You are sure it is M42, not M40?, which would mean it is for Praktiflex.
If M42, it was altered at some time in it's life. No prototype, as M42 was introduced after WWII.
Klaus
_________________
my Ebay auctions
Canon 5D II,
Fuji GW690III, Fuji G617, Fujifilm X-E1
Bessaflex TM
Tachihara 4"x5"
Summilux-R 1:1,4/50
Canon FD 85mm 1:1,2
Color-Heliar 75mm F2.5 SL
www.autoselbstfotografie.de
www.classic-cameras-and-lenses.de |
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kitson306
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 5
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:49 am Post subject: |
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kitson306 wrote:
| exaklaus wrote: |
Nice one. You are sure it is M42, not M40?, which would mean it is for Praktiflex.
If M42, it was altered at some time in it's life. No prototype, as M42 was introduced after WWII.
Klaus |
thanks Klaus,
I have a M42 to EOS adapter and it fits really smoothly. I did a search on wiki for the M42 and M40 and come back with this...
| Quote: |
| The M42 mount was first developed by Carl Zeiss at their Jena plant in 1938 at the request of the KW camera company for their Praktica line, which had previously used M40 (40 mm by 1 mm DIN). |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M42_lens_mount
Do you think it's possible that it's one of the first ones made for M42? I think it'd be easy to make it from M42 to M40, but to add 2mm back on the thread would be a much tougher job..
Any insights?
thanks!
Kitson |
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exaklaus
Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 1633
Location: Niederrhein, Germany
Expire: 2011-12-02
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:01 am Post subject: |
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exaklaus wrote:
Who knows...
But I don't believe that as first Praktiflex was released in 1939!
There was no Praktica until end of 1949 (m42) and the Contax S (m42) was released as first m42 camera end of 1949, too.
I'd bet that your lens has not the original base. Compare with the other pre-war lenses. There is no depth of field scale on yours.
Not the screw mount was altered to m42, the complete rear end was swapped.
Klaus
_________________
my Ebay auctions
Canon 5D II,
Fuji GW690III, Fuji G617, Fujifilm X-E1
Bessaflex TM
Tachihara 4"x5"
Summilux-R 1:1,4/50
Canon FD 85mm 1:1,2
Color-Heliar 75mm F2.5 SL
www.autoselbstfotografie.de
www.classic-cameras-and-lenses.de |
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Attila
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57849
Location: Hungary
Expire: 2025-11-18
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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Attila wrote:
+1 altered lens , but no matter be happy , not many people have it!
_________________
-------------------------------
Items on sale on Ebay
Sony NEX-7 Carl Zeiss Planar 85mm f1.4, Minolta MD 35mm f1.8, Konica 135mm f2.5, Minolta MD 50mm f1.2, Minolta MD 250mm f5.6, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 180mm f2.8
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kitson306
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 5
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:31 am Post subject: |
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kitson306 wrote:
I would think so too! Makes much more sense!
Any idea how much it would be worth??
Thx!
Kitson
| Attila wrote: |
| +1 altered lens , but no matter be happy , not many people have it! |
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exaklaus
Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 1633
Location: Niederrhein, Germany
Expire: 2011-12-02
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| Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:01 am Post subject: |
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exaklaus wrote:
| kitson306 wrote: |
I would think so too! Makes much more sense!
Any idea how much it would be worth??
Thx!
Kitson
| Attila wrote: |
| +1 altered lens , but no matter be happy , not many people have it! |
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Difficult to make an estimate, but I'd bet something between $600 and 1100
Klaus
_________________
my Ebay auctions
Canon 5D II,
Fuji GW690III, Fuji G617, Fujifilm X-E1
Bessaflex TM
Tachihara 4"x5"
Summilux-R 1:1,4/50
Canon FD 85mm 1:1,2
Color-Heliar 75mm F2.5 SL
www.autoselbstfotografie.de
www.classic-cameras-and-lenses.de |
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kitson306
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 5
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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kitson306 wrote:
after some more research, and talked to some old school camera guys here locally, they said it should be a T2 mount. Not sure where this leads.. |
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exaklaus
Joined: 11 Aug 2009
Posts: 1633
Location: Niederrhein, Germany
Expire: 2011-12-02
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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exaklaus wrote:
| kitson306 wrote: |
| after some more research, and talked to some old school camera guys here locally, they said it should be a T2 mount. Not sure where this leads.. |
T2 (that's a more modern thing) would mean it can be adapted by cheap adapters to every SLR.
But I doubt that it is T2. T2 has a finer thread.
Anyway, there should be a camera shop somewhere with an old praktica or pentax to try if it is M42....
Klaus
_________________
my Ebay auctions
Canon 5D II,
Fuji GW690III, Fuji G617, Fujifilm X-E1
Bessaflex TM
Tachihara 4"x5"
Summilux-R 1:1,4/50
Canon FD 85mm 1:1,2
Color-Heliar 75mm F2.5 SL
www.autoselbstfotografie.de
www.classic-cameras-and-lenses.de |
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ForenSeil
Joined: 15 Apr 2011
Posts: 2726
Location: Kiel, Germany.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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ForenSeil wrote:
It's M42 when it fits into your EOS Adapter. As said T2 is also 42mm but has a finer thread and won't fit into your adapter.
so
+1 for altered lens, because theres no depth of field scale. I wonder who made this modification. I would say it's about 600-800€ worth if the glas is without haze and focus and aperture are not stiff.
_________________
I'm not a collector, I'm a tester
My camera: Sony A7+Zeiss Sonnar 55/1.8
Current favourite lenses (I have many more):
A few macro-Tominons, Samyang 12/2.8, Noritsu 50.7/9.5, Rodagon 105/5.6 on bellows, Samyang 135/2, Nikon ED 180/2.8, Leitz Elmar-R 250/4, Celestron C8 2000mm F10
Most wanted: Samyang 24/1.4, Samyang 35/1.4, Nikon 200/2 ED
My Blog: http://picturechemistry.own-blog.com/
(German language) |
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kitson306
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 5
Location: Hong Kong
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| Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:58 am Post subject: |
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kitson306 wrote:
I think this mystery will never be solved.
The modification, T2 or M42, doesn't look like any aftermarket work. The metals on the top and bottom are similar in color and quality, also the age seems to match. There's no welding marks anywhere so the whole bottom must have been swapped.
I think there's more to it than just a hollow bottom as the elements seems to be sliding on rails on the inner size. this would make it extremely hard to mill out a bottom just for this.
Another old lens expert suggest it might have been a custom order lens for military use or a limited run for some gov't work, etc. But no way to tell, and no way to proof.
| ForenSeil wrote: |
It's M42 when it fits into your EOS Adapter. As said T2 is also 42mm but has a finer thread and won't fit into your adapter.
so
+1 for altered lens, because theres no depth of field scale. I wonder who made this modification. I would say it's about 600-800€ worth if the glas is without haze and focus and aperture are not stiff. |
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