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CZJ 80mm f/1.8 Pancolar (stupid?) cleaning idea
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:08 am    Post subject: CZJ 80mm f/1.8 Pancolar (stupid?) cleaning idea Reply with quote

Guys (and Gals of course!),

I have a Pancolar 80mm f/1.8 here from another forum member. This one has the recurring problem that the diaphragm blades get sticky, even after cleaning (the blades have never been removed though;).

Now, I want to do it the easy way (i.e. not remove the blades). The Pancolar is very easy to dismantle: the rear and front groups can be removed without effort, leaving the focusing helicoid and diaphragm behind as one piece. So I was thinking... How smart/stupid would it be to dunk the whole piece in a bath of pure naphta to clean EVERYTHING? Yes, this will also dissolve the focusing grease, but the helicoid is easy to reach without dismantling (relubing is easy) so I think it should be possible? The Pancolar does not have a rubber focusing ring, there's only metal.

What do you think? Stupid/good idea???


PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I don't know if it's a stupid idea but I do know one thing, don't let me know if you decided to do it, I still want to sleep in peace Very Happy ....
Hope you get good advises Rolling Eyes !


PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have a very good repairman here. he can do it for 10 -15 eur.

if you want you can send it to me and i will return it when it's ready.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pich900 wrote:
Well I don't know if it's a stupid idea but I do know one thing, don't let me know if you decided to do it, I still want to sleep in peace Very Happy ....
Hope you get good advises Rolling Eyes !


Laughing Laughing Laughing

Of course, I will take utmost care of it because it's not my lens... So I think it was a good idea to ask some advice here. I still think it can be done because there's nothing inside that can break/get damaged by putting it in a bath of naphta.

Thanks for the suggestion of sending it to Bulgaria! It's not my lens though so I will leave the decision to Pich900.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that this procedure is done with mechanical shutters to get all the old grease/oil out without having to take that very complicated mechanic apart. Then later only very few known parts get a little oil if needed.

It may well work - but what makes you sure it is a oil/grease problem that that blades are getting stuck? It could well be a mechanical problem...


PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spotmatic wrote:
Of course, I will take utmost care of it because it's not my lens... So I think it was a good idea to ask some advice here. I still think it can be done because there's nothing inside that can break/get damaged by putting it in a bath of naphta.


I did the same thing with my "Tele-Edixon" but used acetone. Aperture works now but it is slightly heavy and noisy. (Yes noisy, like schreeching metal.)


PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the information, Klaus!

kds315* wrote:

It may well work - but what makes you sure it is a oil/grease problem that that blades are getting stuck? It could well be a mechanical problem...


Because I cleaned this blades twice. After that it will work for a few weeks, but after that they will get stuck again. I guess the grease is in the area where the blades rest when the aperture is wide open (it's always stuck wide open).


PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kansalliskala wrote:
Spotmatic wrote:
Of course, I will take utmost care of it because it's not my lens... So I think it was a good idea to ask some advice here. I still think it can be done because there's nothing inside that can break/get damaged by putting it in a bath of naphta.


I did the same thing with my "Tele-Edixon" but used acetone. Aperture works now but it is slightly heavy and noisy. (Yes noisy, like schreeching metal.)


Interesting. Did the acetone leave a residue on the blades or where does the screeching noise come from?


PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a fine lens so don't trash it please Smile . I personally would not take the risk of repairing it myself. So if you can't find a repairmen localy and don't mind to wait for some time and the extra shipping cost please let me know. The guy is very good and does mirracles Smile


PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spotmatic wrote:
kansalliskala wrote:
Spotmatic wrote:
Of course, I will take utmost care of it because it's not my lens... So I think it was a good idea to ask some advice here. I still think it can be done because there's nothing inside that can break/get damaged by putting it in a bath of naphta.


I did the same thing with my "Tele-Edixon" but used acetone. Aperture works now but it is slightly heavy and noisy. (Yes noisy, like schreeching metal.)


Interesting. Did the acetone leave a residue on the blades or where does the screeching noise come from?


It took the oil completely away. So it is just metal against metal. I think it got some of the black paint off also ..


PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kansalliskala wrote:
Spotmatic wrote:
kansalliskala wrote:
Spotmatic wrote:
Of course, I will take utmost care of it because it's not my lens... So I think it was a good idea to ask some advice here. I still think it can be done because there's nothing inside that can break/get damaged by putting it in a bath of naphta.


I did the same thing with my "Tele-Edixon" but used acetone. Aperture works now but it is slightly heavy and noisy. (Yes noisy, like schreeching metal.)


Interesting. Did the acetone leave a residue on the blades or where does the screeching noise come from?


It took the oil completely away. So it is just metal against metal. I think it got some of the black paint off also ..


From the sound of it, and from what I've read on the web, it seems that Acetone certainly is NOT the way to go and that Naphta (lighter fluid) is a much better solvent.


PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spotmatic wrote:
From the sound of it, and from what I've read on the web, it seems that Acetone certainly is NOT the way to go and that Naphta (lighter fluid) is a much better solvent.


Probably because acetone is supposed to take the paint off too. Is there some oil in lighter fluid?


PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even wikipedia says you should do it so don't hesitate. Smile

Quote:

Naphthas are also used in other applications such as:
# To remove from the aperture blades of camera lenses any oil which, if present, could slow the movement of the blades, leading to overexposure;


PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: CZJ 80mm f/1.8 Pancolar (stupid?) cleaning idea Reply with quote

Spotmatic wrote:
Guys (and Gals of course!),

How smart/stupid would it be to dunk the whole piece in a bath of pure naphta to clean EVERYTHING?


I did it. I mean immerse it into a bath of Naphta.
Slight improvement.
I finished by dismantling everything and cleaned the blades one by one. Dry them one by one.
Use cotton gloves.
It worked like a charm.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: CZJ 80mm f/1.8 Pancolar (stupid?) cleaning idea Reply with quote

Himself wrote:
Spotmatic wrote:
Guys (and Gals of course!),

How smart/stupid would it be to dunk the whole piece in a bath of pure naphta to clean EVERYTHING?


I did it. I mean immerse it into a bath of Naphta.
Slight improvement.
I finished by dismantling everything and cleaned the blades one by one. Dry them one by one.
Use cotton gloves.
It worked like a charm.


Dismantling and cleaning them is one thing, but putting them together again another. Congratulations!


PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:29 pm    Post subject: Re: CZJ 80mm f/1.8 Pancolar (stupid?) cleaning idea Reply with quote

Himself wrote:
Spotmatic wrote:
Guys (and Gals of course!),

How smart/stupid would it be to dunk the whole piece in a bath of pure naphta to clean EVERYTHING?


I did it. I mean immerse it into a bath of Naphta.
Slight improvement.
I finished by dismantling everything and cleaned the blades one by one. Dry them one by one.
Use cotton gloves.
It worked like a charm.


Congrats!! Not an easy job at all.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually acetone is the stronger solvent, although much harsher, than naptha. Naptha is much milder, does not dissolve paint nearly as quickly, does not melt plastic, for example. Both are toxic, acetone is extremely toxic, both are easily absorbed by skin. Wear gloves, have adequate ventilation...check the MSDS before using either naptha or acetone! Acetone is typically very pure, evaporates completely, and leaves no residues. Light fluid is also very pure, but it will leave a residue on lens surface that is easily cleaned off with lens fluid.

Methyl alcohol (Eclipse) is also toxic, easily absorbed through skin contact, read the MSDS!


PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What don't you try to lubricate the blades with graphite ? Rub a black pencil on a file and apply the resulting fine powder on the blades.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jieffe wrote:
What don't you try to lubricate the blades with graphite ? Rub a black pencil on a file and apply the resulting fine powder on the blades.


Tiny black specs spread to elements?


PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

siriusdogstar wrote:
Tiny black specs spread to elements?

I succesfully tried this method on a Tomioka 55mm (after 3 or 4 cleaning with naphta). You just apply a very small quantity of graphite with a fine brush. If you're careful enough, nothing will fall on the elements.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jieffe wrote:
siriusdogstar wrote:
Tiny black specs spread to elements?

I succesfully tried this method on a Tomioka 55mm (after 3 or 4 cleaning with naphta). You just apply a very small quantity of graphite with a fine brush. If you're careful enough, nothing will fall on the elements.


Good to know, thanks! I was worrying about particles falling from the aperture during use.


PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting ideas! I think I will try the "dunk in naphta" method first. I'll check back in this topic to let you all know my experiences Twisted Evil


PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: CZJ 80mm f/1.8 Pancolar (stupid?) cleaning idea Reply with quote

Himself wrote:
I did it. I mean immerse it into a bath of Naphta.
Slight improvement.
I finished by dismantling everything and cleaned the blades one by one. Dry them one by one.
Use cotton gloves.
It worked like a charm.


Based on your cleaning above, how much of the actual cleaning & contaminant removal do you think was accomplished by each of the two steps (immersion vs dismantled cleaning)? Question

For example, was it a case where the immersion did 80% of the cleaning and the dismantled cleaning took care of the remaining 20%? Or was it the other way around, or even 50/50?


PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't matter.
30%, or 50% or 80%, it simply doesn't matter.
It will always be a difference between a perfectly snappy diaphragm and a 80% working one.
More than that there is a lot of time involved, especially in the first procedure, immersing the whole diaphragm into the bath.
That is, you let it there for at least 24 hours, dry it carefully with a hot air blower, put the lens together and voila! the bitch doesn't work 100%.
And then start dismantling again. Doing what? Bath or clean one by one?
I chose cleaning even if putting the blade together was a painful job. I have a lot of tweezers but I wouldn't touch those fragile things with a tweezers. They bend so easily.
I worked only with flat surfaces.
Of course the idea came after couple of hours, 2 whiskeys and 4 cigarettes ( worry not, I don't smoke inside the house). Did I mention the nervous trembling?
Anyway, I magnetized a Robertson bit, a long one, and I put the blade into the position, keeping it there with Q tip( there was a moment when I prayed for a third hand Very Happy).
But they wouldn't stay there, because they are so light, and the sill they are sitting on is so small, and there is a huge hole in the middle. Couple of more cigarettes, a whiskey and a hour later I came up with another solution:I cut off part of the wooden handle of the broom, I wrapped around it some gaffer tape until it fit the hole perfectly, coming through it, of course. Now the blade would stand still while I put them together, around that wooden thing.
Everything worked 100% not 80 or 50.


PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despite the comments above I just decided to give it a try (the "dunk in Naphta" method).

It looks it worked like a charm. I didn't just immerse it, but I opened and closed the diaphragm over and over again while immersed. I did the same with the focusing helicoid. The lens appeared to be very dirty inside.

After this treatment I also had to regrease the helicoid. This worked well too.

Before cleaning, look at the dirty blades:


Immersed:


After cleaning:


A lot of thrash came from the inside...


The diaphragm is clean now...


The first shot at f/8