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Adapter Trouble for Helios-44
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:57 am    Post subject: Adapter Trouble for Helios-44 Reply with quote
So i recently purchased a Helios-44 lens. I thought it was a helios 44-2 lens and bought from ebay a m42 to eos adapter, but when i got the lens found out that the adapter is too big for the lens.

After a lot of reading on this forum and the pentax forum i think i might have a few things clear(er) now (correct me if i am wrong)

1. the logo on the image suggests its MMZ
2. it has white letters and has N60xxx... numbering suggests it was made in 196X
3. its NOT Helios 44-2 its a Helios-44 MMZ

My biggest question is since the m42 adapter(screw) does not fit do i need a m39 to eos adapter.

I am unable to figure out if i can use this on a canon dslr if yes what adapter would you recommend i use ?

thanks in advance

below some screenshots.







Question


PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Some of the links that helped me


http://www.flickr.com/groups/zenitusers/discuss/72157623464372905/

http://cameras.alfredklomp.com/logos/

http://forum.mflenses.com/viewtopic.php?t=26100


PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
(I deleted this post because my information was inaccurate) Embarassed

Last edited by M. Valdemar on Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:58 am; edited 1 time in total


PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes the threading on the lens is smaller for the m42 adapter.

Could you please elaborate on the focus to film plane being different ?


would it be better if i were to use

m39-m42 & m42-eos instead of
m39-eos

??


PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
M. Valdemar wrote:
Is the lens thread too small for the M42 Pentax adapter?

In that case you have a Leica M39 thread and it will not easily work with a Canon DSLR. The focus to film plane is different.

No, sorry, this is misinformation. The Helios-44 has M39 X 1mm thread, not Leica M39x26tpi. It was designed for the Zenit M39 cameras with virtually the same register distance as M42 so it will work fine on your camera if you get a M39>M42 ring to use with your M42 adapter.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
karthiksudhir: I think your lens is early copy of zebra Helios 44 model... according to the "N60xxx" I'd say it's 1966. But it's also possible, that the ring is older than the other parts of the lens (maybe they used old stocks at MMZ).

Try a simple test. Mount the EOS-M42 adapter on your DSLR, set the lens at infinity and hold it by your hand directly on the adapter. Try to take a few pictures of the horizon. Check the pictures - if the horizon is in focus, you don't need special adapter and M39-M42 ring will be enough. If the horizon isn't sharp, the lens with the EOS-M42 probably doesn't hit infinity, so special (thinner) adapter will be needed.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
peterqd is correct. I forgot that this lens has same register distance as M42.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
peterqd wrote:
M. Valdemar wrote:
Is the lens thread too small for the M42 Pentax adapter?

In that case you have a Leica M39 thread and it will not easily work with a Canon DSLR. The focus to film plane is different.

No, sorry, this is misinformation. The Helios-44 has M39 X 1mm thread, not Leica M39x26tpi. It was designed for the Zenit M39 cameras with virtually the same register distance as M42 so it will work fine on your camera if you get a M39>M42 ring to use with your M42 adapter.


Using this approach infinity focus will be at ~ 10 m.


PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
thanks Valdemar and peterqd this info really helps

this is what i found on another forum

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9056

M42 screw M42x1 thread 45.46
Zenith 3M M39x1 thread 45.46
Leica screw M39x26tpi 28.80

The Leica lenses are commonly referred to as 'LTM' and the Zenith lenses are commonly referred to as 'M39'. As you can see, the distance from the back of the lens flange to the film plane is VERY different. With an M39 to M42 adapter, you can mount any M39 lens on an M42 body and expect to get infinity focus. As others here have said - that won't work for a Leica lens.


thanks no-x


that was a great tip, i just tried it out. set aperture to 16 and then took a test shot and the horizon did not look that fuzzy.

Would it be possible to post a link to the "special" adapter please.

Thanks!!


PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
sichko wrote:
peterqd wrote:
M. Valdemar wrote:
Is the lens thread too small for the M42 Pentax adapter?

In that case you have a Leica M39 thread and it will not easily work with a Canon DSLR. The focus to film plane is different.

No, sorry, this is misinformation. The Helios-44 has M39 X 1mm thread, not Leica M39x26tpi. It was designed for the Zenit M39 cameras with virtually the same register distance as M42 so it will work fine on your camera if you get a M39>M42 ring to use with your M42 adapter.


Using this approach infinity focus will be at ~ 10 m.



can you elaborate on this Smile .....
because in the photo that i shot i see some buildings about 5-6 blocks away pretty sharp, i was suprised


PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
karthiksudhir wrote:
sichko wrote:
peterqd wrote:
M. Valdemar wrote:
Is the lens thread too small for the M42 Pentax adapter?

In that case you have a Leica M39 thread and it will not easily work with a Canon DSLR. The focus to film plane is different.

No, sorry, this is misinformation. The Helios-44 has M39 X 1mm thread, not Leica M39x26tpi. It was designed for the Zenit M39 cameras with virtually the same register distance as M42 so it will work fine on your camera if you get a M39>M42 ring to use with your M42 adapter.


Using this approach infinity focus will be at ~ 10 m.



can you elaborate on this Smile .....
because in the photo that i shot i see some buildings about 5-6 blocks away pretty sharp, i was suprised


The normal register length (working distance) for a Zenit M39 lens is 45.2 mm. The normal register for a Zenit M42 lens is 45.5 mm. These are the numbers quoted in the Zenit archive ...

http://zenit.istra.ru/archive/lenses/helios-44.html

and quoted by Zenit in their instruction manuals.

(Note that for a time the Zenit E camera [and possibly the Zenit B] was [were] made with both M42 and M39 mounts and there are examples of M42 lenses with the shorter register and of M39 lenses with the longer register)

If you convert a short register M39 lens to an "M42" lens using an M39-M42 ring and use it on a camera designed for a long register lens you are effectively using the lens with a short (0.3 mm) extension tube. Using the simple lens approximation ...

1/f = 1/S1 + 1/S2

where f = focal length of the lens, S1 = lens-film/sensor distance and S2 = lens subject distance puts "infinity" at 11.3 m for f= 58 mm.
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