When is a Carl Zeiss lens NOT a Carl Zeiss lens?

[aoleg]

I stumbled upon this VERY interesting discussion. Starting from a controversial post, it really is loaded with historical information on East vs. West Zeiss companies. Check it out:

http://photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00M21d
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List of lenses

[my_photography]

Interesting find - a thread that started in Jul 2007.
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Zeiss: CJZ Flektogon 20/2.8, Tessar 50/2.8, CJZ Pentacon 29/2.8, CJZ Flektogon 35/2.4, CJZ Pancolar 50/1.8, Biotar 7.5cm/1.5, CJZ Pancolar 80/1.8, CJZ Sonnar 135/3.5, CJZ Pentacon 135/2.8 CJZ Sonnar 200/2.8
Other Germany: Meyer Primoplan 50/1.8, Meyer Trioplan 100/2.8
Takumar: SMC 50/1.4 Super Tak 55/2, S-M-C 135/3.5, Super Tak 150/4
Russian: Zenith 16/2.8, Mir-24M 2/35, Volna-9 50/2.8, Helios 44M (58/2), Helios 44M-3 MC (58/2), Helios 40 (85/1.5), Tair 11A (135/2.8 )
Others: Sears 28/2.8, Sankor 35/2.8, Enna München Tele-Ennalyt 135/3.5
Zoom Sigma Zoom 28-85/3.5-4.5

[no-X]

I don't know the guy who started the discussion, but it seems to me he needed to hear some reasons why he paid so high amount of money for his west-germany lenses...

Well... CZJ lenses made by Russians? Not only CZJ lenses were manufactured by the same people, who manufactured pre-war Zeiss lenses, but even many of the optical diagrams were pre-war or pre-Oberkochen (Biotars, Sonnars, Biometars...). Some engineers went to Oberkochen, some stayed at Jena. Very easy to check it - patents with their names are available online.

Some later west lenses were slightly better (maybe the main reason was better quality control), but lenses like Pancolar 80/1.8 or Sonnar 135/3.5 are at least at the same level. Btw. CZJ Sonnars are always Sonnars - Oberkochen Sonnars are in fact ernostars (easier to manufacture).
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(almost) complete list of Helios lenses

[Attila]

Poster has no clue about lenses and Carl Zeiss either. Just simple ignore it.
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Panasonic G-1
Konica 4/21,2.8/24,2/35,1.8/40,1.7/50,1.8/85,2.8/100,3.2/135,3,5/200,4.5/300,4,5/400
Konica FC-1,FT-1,FP,FM,Pearl,Pear III,Koni-Omega
Please visit my Ebay shop
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http://webdesign-logo.com

[koji]

[aoleg]

[hk300]

interesting read ...

It also shows that some people are very biased, and think that they know everything (the thread starter), and for this reason they think they have the right to handle.

It is in my eyes more about Politics.
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Alex

Body 40D
Custom Contax split screen
MF Lenses ... too many to list ...

[Seele]

I was aware of this thread soon after it started, and decided not to participate. Misinformation can hang around for a very long time and keeps on misinforming. Besides I am aware of the fact that, the danger of arguing with an idiot, is that bystanders might not be able to tell who is the idiot.

[poilu]

even Zeiss seems misinformed of his own history, otherwise why did they destroy Jena prototypes
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T*

[trifox]

What a PRICK!! I can not believe that ..

tf

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Steven Moseley , Jul 28, 2007; 07:17 a.m.

Hi,

Q: When is a 'Carl Zeiss' lens not a 'Carl Zeiss' lens?

A: When it is a Carl Zeiss 'JENA' lens....

I am posting this because as a Contax/Zeiss user, I am concerned that an increasing number of people are potentially getting misled into thinking that the old M42 screw mount Carl Zeiss 'Jena' lenses are proper Zeiss lenses, when in fact they are nothing of the sort.

In particular there has been a mushroom effect in people using older lenses with adaptors on digital SLR's and sellers on a certain auction site are most certainly IMO trying to con bidders into thinking these old M42 Zeiss 'Jena' lenses are the real thing...in other words misleading bidders into thinking they are the equivalent of the 'proper' Contax Zeiss lenses.

Just for the record..these M42 screw Carl Zeiss 'jena' lenses were made in Eastern Germany (DDR) run by the Russians after the end of world war two and up until the fall of the Berlin wall. The only real connection to Carl Zeiss is that they were made in the old Zeiss factory in Jena, which was 'inherited' by the Russians. It was just quite literally four walls and a roof.

The proper Carl Zeiss company in Western Germany was furious that the Russians were making lenses with the Zeiss name on them and pursued a legal case for years, but this was very difficult across the west/east divide and the russians got around the issue by putting Carl Zeiss 'JENA' on their lenses.

These 'Jena' lenses were mostly made for the low end Praktica cameras and are of generally low end quality with poor build and design. Some of the lenses have proven to be of good optical design, but these are very much in the minority and all the lenses suffer from poor build issues and poor longevity.

You can get good results with some of the lenses, but should be aware that they are nothing like the same build quality as proper Zeiss lenses.

I am stunned at how much some of the M42 Jena lenses are now fetching, indeed some buyers are now paying almost as much as you would for proper Contax Zeiss lenses! which does lead me to think they are imagining they are actually buying the real thing, when they are not.....

cheers Steve.
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Stan

Flickr.com
CAMERA, LENS, SHUTTER REPAIRS and LENS MOUNT CONVERSION - info@cameraserviceone.com, www.cameraserviceone.com

[trifox]

I'll find him, personally!

tf
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Stan

Flickr.com
CAMERA, LENS, SHUTTER REPAIRS and LENS MOUNT CONVERSION - info@cameraserviceone.com, www.cameraserviceone.com

[Attila]

[a20010494]

Also, looks like the people in that thread is not well informed about right/left wing.
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Sigma SD14 plus:
Sigma 70-200 2.8 EX, Nikkor 105mm 1.8, Schneider-Kreuznach 200mm 5.5 (Edixa-Reflex), Canon FD 55mm 1.2 SSC, Canon New-FD 50mm 1.2, Pentax-M 50mm 1.4, Vivitar 35mm 1.9, Panagor 28mm 2.0, Vivitar 100mm 2.8 Macro, Carl Zeiss Sonnar 135mm 2.8, and too lazy to convert'em all

www.flickr.com/photos/aguadeloco