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MartinV
Joined: 09 May 2013 Posts: 67
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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MartinV wrote:
TAo2 wrote: |
The 44-2 comes in M39 and M42 versions. The -2 is a series no. - eg 44-2, 44-3 etc. The higher the number the greater the lens resolution. M39 and M42 overlapped as different factories used up stocks. |
I still think the -2 on indicates an M42 lens for Helios 44-2, Helios 40-2, Industar 50-2, etc. I guess it's possible that some 44-2 "beauty rings" ended up on M39 lenses, but just how common are those M39 44-2's?
According to http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/lenses/helios-44.html the indices of 44M-5, 44M-6 and 44M-7 do indicate resolution, but this practice didn't start until the 80s/90s. From the specs on that page, for example, 44M-4 and 44M-5 have the same resolving power. And there's a 44-7 lens with less resolution than either of those, since the -7 indicated a Zenit 7 lens in that case. The naming and serial number schemes were pretty inconsistent, so it's hard to make generalizations.
BTW, that link and also the first page of this topic say that 44-2 was M42, not M39.
TAo2 wrote: |
00 normally indicates pre-1970, a single 0 suggests 1970. |
If a 0100000 (single 0) lens is from 1970, then the previous lens from the production line would be 0099999 (double 0, but still 1970), right? Maybe the owner of the 0054216 Helios 44-2, mr. Oldhand, can shed some light on this; what type of lens is it according to the types on page one of this topic? KMZ, type 1.a, or MMZ, type 2.a? If it's an M42 lens, it seems unlikely to be from early sixties, as Soviet M42 cameras didn't appear until the late sixties. |
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BurstMox
Joined: 04 Dec 2011 Posts: 1998 Location: France
Expire: 2016-08-02
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Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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BurstMox wrote:
themoleman342 wrote: |
Quote: |
Any idea when KMZ stopped the use of П inscription on their H-44 ? |
From what I know, the symbol was simply supposed to indicate that a lens was coated. It did not denote a special coating like in the case of the Zeiss T. Because of that it was redundant to include the symbol when pretty much all production lenses had some form of coating. |
Quote: |
Early 60s, my best guess is that 1961 was the first year for KMZ with simpler markings - 1,5/85 instead of 1:1,5 F=8,5см , and no more П. I'm sure there can be exceptions and I have a 1963 Jupiter 8M by Arsenal with "1:2 F=5 см" markings (but no П). |
That's true, I just noticed that not all plants stopped to use the П at the same time. I was wondering when KMZ stopped this marking. I'm asking this question because I have a 44 from KMZ, with this lettering (5.8cm П), but with serial starting with 55xxxxx. Even if KMZ copied the serial methode of MMZ, that would make this Helios made in 65, but in 65 was already many Helios with simple 58mm markings from KMZ. _________________ Pierre
sovietlenses.fr
Soviet lenses Facebook group |
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Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Posts: 6008 Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
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Posted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:19 am Post subject: |
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Oldhand wrote:
MartinV wrote: |
TAo2 wrote: |
The 44-2 comes in M39 and M42 versions. The -2 is a series no. - eg 44-2, 44-3 etc. The higher the number the greater the lens resolution. M39 and M42 overlapped as different factories used up stocks. |
.
TAo2 wrote: |
00 normally indicates pre-1970, a single 0 suggests 1970. |
If a 0100000 (single 0) lens is from 1970, then the previous lens from the production line would be 0099999 (double 0, but still 1970), right? Maybe the owner of the 0054216 Helios 44-2, mr. Oldhand, can shed some light on this; what type of lens is it according to the types on page one of this topic? KMZ, type 1.a, or MMZ, type 2.a? If it's an M42 lens, it seems unlikely to be from early sixties, as Soviet M42 cameras didn't appear until the late sixties. |
Here are some images that may help the discussion
It appears I missed the N prefix in the serial no.
So ...... an MMZ Zebra v1 (1969-70) looks likely.
Apologies for my oversight
OH
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MartinV
Joined: 09 May 2013 Posts: 67
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Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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MartinV wrote:
Oldhand wrote: |
So ...... an MMZ Zebra v1 (1969-70) looks likely.
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And yours is an M42 lens, right?
I have a similar Zebra M39 MMZ Helios 44 and the 80xxxxx confused me for quite a while, here it is on the right:
But BurstMox's red П Helios 44 with the 55 serial is still a mystery to me. I assume it's a silver M39? How many aperture blades? |
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Oldhand
Joined: 01 Apr 2013 Posts: 6008 Location: Mid North Coast NSW - Australia
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Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Oldhand wrote:
MartinV wrote: |
Oldhand wrote: |
So ...... an MMZ Zebra v1 (1969-70) looks likely.
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And yours is an M42 lens, right?
I have a similar Zebra M39 MMZ Helios 44 and the 80xxxxx confused me for quite a while, here it is on the right:
But BurstMox's red П Helios 44 with the 55 serial is still a mystery to me. I assume it's a silver M39? How many aperture blades? |
Yes - M42.
OH |
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BurstMox
Joined: 04 Dec 2011 Posts: 1998 Location: France
Expire: 2016-08-02
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Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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BurstMox wrote:
I also have MMZ 44 with m39, on Zenit-E with m39 mount.
About my red П Helios 44 with the 55 serial, it's not 55, but 50xxxx (doesn't change anything) it is silver, and 13 blades. In fact, it looks exactly like a 00 or 000 serial Helios 44 (only 000 and some 00 have red P and focal in cm), but mine has serial 5001128.
Here is a photo :
Comparing to my 0xxxxx silver H-44, body is not exactly the same (some little differences in aperture ring) but it is NOT a strange preset, it's normal H-44 preset. _________________ Pierre
sovietlenses.fr
Soviet lenses Facebook group |
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simbon4o
Joined: 19 Dec 2011 Posts: 390 Location: Bulgaria
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Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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simbon4o wrote:
Did anybody knows is it possible to reverse the front element of helios and if possible which version is the one?
I have tried on 44M KMZ but the lens touches the inner one when reversed and did not fit properly in place. I have tried to make a modification that makes the lens make weird bokeh. _________________ 10-300мм 4.0 - 1.2 - 4.5 NIKON&Sony bodies / Sony 10-18, Pentax 28 2.8 II, CZJ 35 2.4, Nikkor DX 35 1.8, Samyang 35 1.4, KMZ 50 1.7, FDn 50 1.2 L, Nikkor 55 2.8, Rokkor 58 1.2, Soligor 85 1.8 Preset, Samyang 85 1.4, Canon FDn 85 1.2 L, Tokina AT-X 90 2.5, Canon FDn 135mm 2.0, Nikkor 180 2.8 ED, Tair 300 4.5
________
snimo.net |
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Drack
Joined: 27 Feb 2011 Posts: 735 Location: Lithuania
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Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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Drack wrote:
simbon4o wrote: |
Did anybody knows is it possible to reverse the front element of helios and if possible which version is the one?
I have tried on 44M KMZ but the lens touches the inner one when reversed and did not fit properly in place. I have tried to make a modification that makes the lens make weird bokeh. |
I think that this is impossible due to the fact that the front elements are simply too close for them no to touch. The front element simply bended too much.
You can try reversing the rear element - that is very easily done. _________________ I have many great Russian cameras and lenses for sale on my ebay account, please check it out: http://www.ebay.com/sch/piksius/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3686
Forum members are olbigaded to a discount
DSLR: Pentax K-x + 18-55 kit + f4 35-75mm
Mirrorless : Samsung NX-20 + 18-55 kit
M42 lense: Helios 44-2 , Helios 44-3, Helios 44m , Tair 3 Phs , Mir-1B , Jupiter-37a, Industar 50-2, Industar 61 L/Z, Tlear-N .
Currently using:
Minolta X-700 + MD f1.7/50mm + Rokkor-X f2.8/28mm + MD f3.5 35-70mm MACRO
Zorki-4K + J-8 f2/50mm + J-12 f2.8/35mm
EXA 1A + CZJ Tessar f2.8/50mm |
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Ray Parkhurst
Joined: 04 Jul 2011 Posts: 497 Location: Santa Clara, CA, USA
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Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:03 am Post subject: |
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Ray Parkhurst wrote:
Did Helios make any bellows lenses? I see the reprographic model...what is the focal length, and does it have a helicoid or is it for bellows use? ...Ray |
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eeec
Joined: 16 Jun 2013 Posts: 45 Location: Edmonton, Canada
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Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:44 am Post subject: |
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eeec wrote:
Ray Parkhurst wrote: |
Did Helios make any bellows lenses? |
The Helios 44-3M functions as a normal lens or it separates and functions as a bellows lens. |
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duta
Joined: 20 Nov 2013 Posts: 1
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Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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duta wrote:
I want to know how is the last model of Helios 44-2 f2/58mm?
44-2 model "2.d": MMZ last design - new barrel
Is good or bad? I hope don't be the worst model Helios 44-2.
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Lena
Joined: 24 Apr 2012 Posts: 495 Location: Pl
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Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Lena wrote:
duta wrote: |
I want to know how is the last model of Helios 44-2 f2/58mm?
44-2 model "2.d": MMZ last design - new barrel
Is good or bad? I hope don't be the worst model Helios 44-2.
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_________________
C&C on my photos always welcome!
Nikon D300s, Canon 5D
Nikkor 24/2.8 Ai, 50/1.4 Ai, 105/2.5 Ai
Helios 44, 44-2, 44M-4, 81N, 77M-4, Jupiter 9, Zenitar 50/1.7
Vivitar Series 1 90/2.5 macro, Samyang 8/3.5, Olympus Zuiko 28/2.8
Meyer Optik Trioplan 50/2.9, 100/2.8, Pentacon 80/2.8 AV
some AF lenses
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zanxion72
Joined: 11 Dec 2012 Posts: 145 Location: Athens, Greece
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Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:39 am Post subject: |
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zanxion72 wrote:
I have just acquired one like the Helios-44 zebra in M42. It is the same as another M39 stated some pages before, only the mount differs.
It reads HELIOS-44 2/58 N1013561, has an MMZ Logo. I have tried it against my other Helios 44-2 and found it to be considerably softer at all apertures. _________________ http://photographiagr.wordpress.com/
Come see me in Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nkarytianos/ |
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vanylapep
Joined: 03 Jan 2014 Posts: 312
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Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:15 am Post subject: |
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vanylapep wrote:
Can I make a correction?
Quote: |
Helios 44 pre-set models (44, 44-2, 44-3)
Helios-44
- resolution: 35/14 or 36/17
- 8-13 aperture blades, pre-set aperture
- M39 SLR, sometimes appears as M42 model (possibly early version of 44-2 with old model ring)
- there is a KMZ prototype marked "Helios 44-1", but production models are always marked only as "44"
- serial number almost never corresponds to year of manufacture, nearly always begins by "N" or "N°"
- MMZ lenses with serial number beginning by "N40xxx", "N50xxx" or "N60xxx" are likely made in 1964, 1965 and 1966 (first number of sn very likely means year of 196x decade)
KMZ
silver, Π, "5,8cm", sn "N°000xxx", 13-blades, f/22 - rare
silver, Π, "5,8cm", sn "N°00xxx", 13-blades, f/16 - rare
silver, "2/58", sn "N°0xxx" or "N°00xxx", 13 blades
silver, "2/58", sn "N°0xxx", 8-blades
black + white lettering, "2/58", sn "N0xxx", 8 blades
black + white lettering, M42, "2/58", sn "N0xxx", 8 blades
MMZ
silver, "2/58", sn "N°40xxx", 8 blades
silver, "2/58", sn "N50xxx" or "N60xxx"
zebra, "2/58", sn "N°xxx" (e.g. 1970) |
I've seen N°000xxx, 13 blades, but with f/16 only. So not all N°000xxx are f/22.
Maybe I can also add a detail. It has a "silver" nose ring like the 3rd lens. I own a N°0xxx and it has a black nose ring like the 2nd lens.
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Piny
Joined: 25 Jan 2014 Posts: 3 Location: Slovakia
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Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:10 am Post subject: helios 44M |
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Piny wrote:
Hi,
im googling many hours and searching if anyone had my helios , but nope, could you please help me which type is this ?
SERIAL : 8144455
IT has yellow numbers and A/M switch
Thank you much
http://imgupload.sk/images/d/q/dqsvzoow5brbn6ozb1um.jpg
http://imgupload.sk/images/d/w/dwan84fha6bqg2m94xz0.jpg |
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kds315*
Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 16541 Location: Weinheim, Germany
Expire: 2021-03-09
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Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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kds315* wrote:
Show a picture, says more that 1000 words! _________________ Klaus - Admin
"S'il vient a point, me souviendra" [Thomas Bohier (1460-1523)]
http://www.macrolenses.de for macro and special lens info
http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos for UV Images and lens/filter info
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kds315/albums my albums using various lenses
http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ my UV BLOG
http://www.travelmeetsfood.com/blog Food + Travel BLOG
https://galeriafotografia.com Architecture + Drone photography
Currently most FAV lens(es):
X80QF f3.2/80mm
Hypergon f11/26mm
ELCAN UV f5.6/52mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f4/60mm
Zeiss UV-Planar f2/62mm
Lomo Уфар-12 f2.5/41mm
Lomo Зуфар-2 f4.0/350mm
Lomo ZIKAR-1A f1.2/100mm
Nikon UV Nikkor f4.5/105mm
Zeiss UV-Sonnar f4.3/105mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f1.8/45mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f4.1/94mm
CERCO UV-VIS-NIR f2.8/100mm
Steinheil Quarzobjektiv f1.8/50mm
Pentax Quartz Takumar f3.5/85mm
Carl Zeiss Jena UV-Objektiv f4/60mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha II f1.1/90mm
NYE OPTICAL Lyman-Alpha I f2.8/200mm
COASTAL OPTICS f4/60mm UV-VIS-IR Apo
COASTAL OPTICS f4.5/105mm UV-Micro-Apo
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f4.5/85mm
Pentax Ultra-Achromatic Takumar f5.6/300mm
Rodenstock UV-Rodagon f5.6/60mm + 105mm + 150mm
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Piny
Joined: 25 Jan 2014 Posts: 3 Location: Slovakia
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Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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Piny wrote:
kds315* wrote: |
Show a picture, says more that 1000 words! |
i cant, when i add link to photo it not showing it, but in preview yes... i know how works phpbb but there something sucks (not works as image too) im trying to add as [img] from your internal storage and from other server but it not works...
EDIT: now it start working...lol
_________________ Canon 5D mk II, Canon 600D
Canon 85mm F1.8, Canon 50mm F1.4, Canon 17-40 F4L, Helios 44m 58mm f/2 |
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themoleman342
Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 2190 Location: East Coast (CT), U.S.A.
Expire: 2013-01-24
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Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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themoleman342 wrote:
You couldn't find the Helios 44m in a google search? |
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Piny
Joined: 25 Jan 2014 Posts: 3 Location: Slovakia
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Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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Piny wrote:
themoleman342 wrote: |
You couldn't find the Helios 44m in a google search? |
yep i found som info but not details , if it has antireflective coat and so on ... _________________ Canon 5D mk II, Canon 600D
Canon 85mm F1.8, Canon 50mm F1.4, Canon 17-40 F4L, Helios 44m 58mm f/2 |
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CuriousOne
Joined: 31 Dec 2013 Posts: 669 Location: Home
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Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:25 am Post subject: |
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CuriousOne wrote:
Here are my helioses:
(M42) 44-2, removed from surveillance camera, never used, serial starts with 88. Has 8 aperture blades.
(M42) MC 44M-6, removed from Zenit ET camera kit, never used. Serial starts with 91. Has 6 aperture blades.
(K mount) MC 44K-4, never used, I've acquired a box of these (20 pcs) in early 00s, serials start with 97. Has 6 aperture blades. _________________ I have nothing to compensate with lens |
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Gamera
Joined: 16 Feb 2014 Posts: 86 Location: Scandinavia
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Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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Gamera wrote:
For the lens archeologists, here's the specs of yet another Helios-44.
Type 1f, identical in outlooks to the one in post:
http://forum.mflenses.com/complete-list-of-helios-lenses-getting-closer-t26100,start,30.html#1082046
Black M42, serial N03374XX, latin alphabets used. Filter thread 49mm.
Was mounted on a Zenit-E, serial 670XXXXX, KMZ logo engraved .
I have no paperworks, but have no reason to believe anything else that this is an original camera/lens combination.
No picture attached in this post. |
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Langstrum
Joined: 16 Feb 2014 Posts: 351
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:19 am Post subject: |
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Langstrum wrote:
I've just purchased a Helios 44 M39 with red П, f22 type. I was finding it for several months with frustrations. Finally I found one with $225. Too expensive for a Helios 44, I guess but it's so rare now. I have 44-2, 44-3, 44M-4, 44M-7 and actually I like them all. 44M-7 seems to have the best resolution as many people mentioned but I'm not sure if the bokeh is different from 44-2.
I'm too excited to wait for this Helios, but can't find any sample shots taken with this version. There was a post about the f16 version, which is very nice, and someone complained that the CA is bad, but there is no reference for this f22.
I'll definitely compare them when I get this lens.
Here is the photos provided by the seller
_________________
Camera: Sony A7 mark III, A6300
AF Lenses:
Canon EF 50/1.8; EF 200/2.8 L, EF 200/1.8 L, EF 300/4 L Sony E mount SEL 50/1.8 OSS, SEL 16/2.8 Fuji X mount XF 35/1.4 R
MF Lenses: Peleng MC 8/3.5, 17/2.8 Samyang 14/T3.1, 35/T1.5, TS 24/3.5 ED, 85/T1.5, Polar 85/1.4 Auto Revuenon 28/2.8; MC 50/1.4 Vega11U 50/2.8 Carl Zeiss Tessar 50/2.8 (exakta mount) Auto Chinon 50/1.9 Zenitar ME1 50/1.7 Sears Auto Sears 55/1.4; Sears 135/2.8 Auto Yashinon DX 50/1.4; Tomioka 50/1.2 SMC Pentax 50/1.7; 50/1.4 Canon FD 50/1.4 S.S.C; 55/1.2 S.S.C; FD 50/1.2 L; FD 85/1.2 L; 85/1.2 S.S.C Aspherical; FD 80-200/4 L 300/2.8 S.S.C Fluorite FD 300/2.8 L FD 200/1.8 LCosina-S 50/1.2 Helios Helios 44 Chrome f/22, 44-2, 44-3, 44M-4, 44M-7 (58/2), Helios-40 85/1.5 Jupiter Jupiter-9 85/2; Jupiter-37A 135/3.5; Jupiter-21M 200/4 Nikon Ai 105/2.5 Tairs-3S 300/4.5
Voigtlander 15/4.5 Aspherical; Ultron 35/1.7
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DrBB
Joined: 26 Mar 2014 Posts: 79 Location: Croatia
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Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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DrBB wrote:
HELIOS-44M 2/58 8199410 8blades M42
HELIOS-44M-4 2/58 86156682 6blades M42
HELIOS-44-2 2/58 78185958 8blades M42
yup, highly addictive lenses, but my real MF addiction start with MIR-1b 2.8/37 (and later MIR-I 2.8/37A with 2 set of blades)
(huh, 1st post ) |
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zelda_n64
Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Posts: 163 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:48 pm Post subject: A Mothering Sunday Helios 44-2 |
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zelda_n64 wrote:
An excellent thread on Helios lenses.
I picked this really scruffy copy of a Helios 44-2 up today at a car boot sale. It was not attached to any camera, although the seller did have a Zenit B with a Helios 44-2 attached to it (1971 if my memory serves me correct).
This one though was in very grubby condition. I haven't been in long, but after a quick clean I thought I would post a couple of pictures of this Helios 44-2. So is it pre 1970/71
8 iris blades
White writing
N00145XX (last 2 digits replaced)
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TAo2
Joined: 09 Mar 2012 Posts: 319 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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TAo2 wrote:
See page 1 of the thread... |
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