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Complete list of Helios lenses - getting closer
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAo2 wrote:
The 44-2 comes in M39 and M42 versions. The -2 is a series no. - eg 44-2, 44-3 etc. The higher the number the greater the lens resolution. M39 and M42 overlapped as different factories used up stocks.

I still think the -2 on indicates an M42 lens for Helios 44-2, Helios 40-2, Industar 50-2, etc. I guess it's possible that some 44-2 "beauty rings" ended up on M39 lenses, but just how common are those M39 44-2's?

According to http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/lenses/helios-44.html the indices of 44M-5, 44M-6 and 44M-7 do indicate resolution, but this practice didn't start until the 80s/90s. From the specs on that page, for example, 44M-4 and 44M-5 have the same resolving power. And there's a 44-7 lens with less resolution than either of those, since the -7 indicated a Zenit 7 lens in that case. The naming and serial number schemes were pretty inconsistent, so it's hard to make generalizations.

BTW, that link and also the first page of this topic say that 44-2 was M42, not M39.

TAo2 wrote:
00 normally indicates pre-1970, a single 0 suggests 1970. Cool

If a 0100000 (single 0) lens is from 1970, then the previous lens from the production line would be 0099999 (double 0, but still 1970), right? Smile Maybe the owner of the 0054216 Helios 44-2, mr. Oldhand, can shed some light on this; what type of lens is it according to the types on page one of this topic? KMZ, type 1.a, or MMZ, type 2.a? If it's an M42 lens, it seems unlikely to be from early sixties, as Soviet M42 cameras didn't appear until the late sixties.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

themoleman342 wrote:
Quote:
Any idea when KMZ stopped the use of П inscription on their H-44 ?


From what I know, the symbol was simply supposed to indicate that a lens was coated. It did not denote a special coating like in the case of the Zeiss T. Because of that it was redundant to include the symbol when pretty much all production lenses had some form of coating.


Quote:
Early 60s, my best guess is that 1961 was the first year for KMZ with simpler markings - 1,5/85 instead of 1:1,5 F=8,5см , and no more П. I'm sure there can be exceptions and I have a 1963 Jupiter 8M by Arsenal with "1:2 F=5 см" markings (but no П).


That's true, I just noticed that not all plants stopped to use the П at the same time. I was wondering when KMZ stopped this marking. I'm asking this question because I have a 44 from KMZ, with this lettering (5.8cm П), but with serial starting with 55xxxxx. Even if KMZ copied the serial methode of MMZ, that would make this Helios made in 65, but in 65 was already many Helios with simple 58mm markings from KMZ.


PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MartinV wrote:
TAo2 wrote:
The 44-2 comes in M39 and M42 versions. The -2 is a series no. - eg 44-2, 44-3 etc. The higher the number the greater the lens resolution. M39 and M42 overlapped as different factories used up stocks.

.

TAo2 wrote:
00 normally indicates pre-1970, a single 0 suggests 1970. Cool

If a 0100000 (single 0) lens is from 1970, then the previous lens from the production line would be 0099999 (double 0, but still 1970), right? Smile Maybe the owner of the 0054216 Helios 44-2, mr. Oldhand, can shed some light on this; what type of lens is it according to the types on page one of this topic? KMZ, type 1.a, or MMZ, type 2.a? If it's an M42 lens, it seems unlikely to be from early sixties, as Soviet M42 cameras didn't appear until the late sixties.


Here are some images that may help the discussion
It appears I missed the N prefix in the serial no.
So ...... an MMZ Zebra v1 (1969-70) looks likely.
Apologies for my oversight
OH







PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oldhand wrote:

So ...... an MMZ Zebra v1 (1969-70) looks likely.

And yours is an M42 lens, right?

I have a similar Zebra M39 MMZ Helios 44 and the 80xxxxx confused me for quite a while, here it is on the right:



But BurstMox's red П Helios 44 with the 55 serial is still a mystery to me. I assume it's a silver M39? How many aperture blades?


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MartinV wrote:
Oldhand wrote:

So ...... an MMZ Zebra v1 (1969-70) looks likely.

And yours is an M42 lens, right?

I have a similar Zebra M39 MMZ Helios 44 and the 80xxxxx confused me for quite a while, here it is on the right:



But BurstMox's red П Helios 44 with the 55 serial is still a mystery to me. I assume it's a silver M39? How many aperture blades?


Yes - M42.
OH


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also have MMZ 44 with m39, on Zenit-E with m39 mount.

About my red П Helios 44 with the 55 serial, it's not 55, but 50xxxx (doesn't change anything) it is silver, and 13 blades. In fact, it looks exactly like a 00 or 000 serial Helios 44 (only 000 and some 00 have red P and focal in cm), but mine has serial 5001128.
Here is a photo :



Comparing to my 0xxxxx silver H-44, body is not exactly the same (some little differences in aperture ring) but it is NOT a strange preset, it's normal H-44 preset.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did anybody knows is it possible to reverse the front element of helios and if possible which version is the one?
I have tried on 44M KMZ but the lens touches the inner one when reversed and did not fit properly in place. I have tried to make a modification that makes the lens make weird bokeh.


PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

simbon4o wrote:
Did anybody knows is it possible to reverse the front element of helios and if possible which version is the one?
I have tried on 44M KMZ but the lens touches the inner one when reversed and did not fit properly in place. I have tried to make a modification that makes the lens make weird bokeh.


I think that this is impossible due to the fact that the front elements are simply too close for them no to touch. The front element simply bended too much.
You can try reversing the rear element - that is very easily done.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did Helios make any bellows lenses? I see the reprographic model...what is the focal length, and does it have a helicoid or is it for bellows use? ...Ray


PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray Parkhurst wrote:
Did Helios make any bellows lenses?


The Helios 44-3M functions as a normal lens or it separates and functions as a bellows lens.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to know how is the last model of Helios 44-2 f2/58mm?

44-2 model "2.d": MMZ last design - new barrel

Is good or bad? I hope don't be the worst model Helios 44-2.


PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

duta wrote:
I want to know how is the last model of Helios 44-2 f2/58mm?

44-2 model "2.d": MMZ last design - new barrel

Is good or bad? I hope don't be the worst model Helios 44-2.


PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just acquired one like the Helios-44 zebra in M42. It is the same as another M39 stated some pages before, only the mount differs.









It reads HELIOS-44 2/58 N1013561, has an MMZ Logo. I have tried it against my other Helios 44-2 and found it to be considerably softer at all apertures.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I make a correction?

Quote:
Helios 44 pre-set models (44, 44-2, 44-3)


Helios-44

- resolution: 35/14 or 36/17
- 8-13 aperture blades, pre-set aperture
- M39 SLR, sometimes appears as M42 model (possibly early version of 44-2 with old model ring)
- there is a KMZ prototype marked "Helios 44-1", but production models are always marked only as "44"
- serial number almost never corresponds to year of manufacture, nearly always begins by "N" or "N°"
- MMZ lenses with serial number beginning by "N40xxx", "N50xxx" or "N60xxx" are likely made in 1964, 1965 and 1966 (first number of sn very likely means year of 196x decade)

KMZ
silver, Π, "5,8cm", sn "N°000xxx", 13-blades, f/22 - rare
silver, Π, "5,8cm", sn "N°00xxx", 13-blades, f/16 - rare
silver, "2/58", sn "N°0xxx" or "N°00xxx", 13 blades
silver, "2/58", sn "N°0xxx", 8-blades
black + white lettering, "2/58", sn "N0xxx", 8 blades
black + white lettering, M42, "2/58", sn "N0xxx", 8 blades

MMZ
silver, "2/58", sn "N°40xxx", 8 blades
silver, "2/58", sn "N50xxx" or "N60xxx"
zebra, "2/58", sn "N°xxx" (e.g. 1970)



I've seen N°000xxx, 13 blades, but with f/16 only. So not all N°000xxx are f/22.

Maybe I can also add a detail. It has a "silver" nose ring like the 3rd lens. I own a N°0xxx and it has a black nose ring like the 2nd lens.



PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:10 am    Post subject: helios 44M Reply with quote

Hi,

im googling many hours and searching if anyone had my helios , but nope, could you please help me which type is this ?

SERIAL : 8144455

IT has yellow numbers and A/M switch

Thank you much Smile

http://imgupload.sk/images/d/q/dqsvzoow5brbn6ozb1um.jpg

http://imgupload.sk/images/d/w/dwan84fha6bqg2m94xz0.jpg


PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Show a picture, says more that 1000 words! Wink


PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kds315* wrote:
Show a picture, says more that 1000 words! Wink


i cant, when i add link to photo it not showing it, but in preview yes... i know how works phpbb but there something sucks (not works as image too) im trying to add as [img] from your internal storage and from other server but it not works...

EDIT: now it start working...lol





PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You couldn't find the Helios 44m in a google search?


PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

themoleman342 wrote:
You couldn't find the Helios 44m in a google search?


yep i found som info but not details , if it has antireflective coat and so on ...


PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are my helioses:



(M42) 44-2, removed from surveillance camera, never used, serial starts with 88. Has 8 aperture blades.

(M42) MC 44M-6, removed from Zenit ET camera kit, never used. Serial starts with 91. Has 6 aperture blades.

(K mount) MC 44K-4, never used, I've acquired a box of these (20 pcs) in early 00s, serials start with 97. Has 6 aperture blades.


PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the lens archeologists, here's the specs of yet another Helios-44.
Type 1f, identical in outlooks to the one in post:
http://forum.mflenses.com/complete-list-of-helios-lenses-getting-closer-t26100,start,30.html#1082046

Black M42, serial N03374XX, latin alphabets used. Filter thread 49mm.
Was mounted on a Zenit-E, serial 670XXXXX, KMZ logo engraved .
I have no paperworks, but have no reason to believe anything else that this is an original camera/lens combination.

No picture attached in this post.


PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just purchased a Helios 44 M39 with red П, f22 type. I was finding it for several months with frustrations. Finally I found one with $225. Too expensive for a Helios 44, I guess Shocked but it's so rare now. I have 44-2, 44-3, 44M-4, 44M-7 and actually I like them all. 44M-7 seems to have the best resolution as many people mentioned but I'm not sure if the bokeh is different from 44-2.

I'm too excited to wait for this Helios, but can't find any sample shots taken with this version. There was a post about the f16 version, which is very nice, and someone complained that the CA is bad, but there is no reference for this f22.

I'll definitely compare them when I get this lens.

Here is the photos provided by the seller







PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HELIOS-44M 2/58 8199410 8blades M42
HELIOS-44M-4 2/58 86156682 6blades M42
HELIOS-44-2 2/58 78185958 8blades M42


yup, highly addictive lenses, but my real MF addiction start with MIR-1b 2.8/37 (and later MIR-I 2.8/37A with 2 set of blades)

(huh, 1st post Smile )


PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:48 pm    Post subject: A Mothering Sunday Helios 44-2 Reply with quote

An excellent thread on Helios lenses.

I picked this really scruffy copy of a Helios 44-2 up today at a car boot sale. It was not attached to any camera, although the seller did have a Zenit B with a Helios 44-2 attached to it (1971 if my memory serves me correct).

This one though was in very grubby condition. I haven't been in long, but after a quick clean I thought I would post a couple of pictures of this Helios 44-2. So is it pre 1970/71

8 iris blades
White writing
N00145XX (last 2 digits replaced)



PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See page 1 of the thread... Cool