Right lens for T/S bellows

[Jozef_AV]

hello experts,

seeking advice from more experienced users.
I got myself a tilt and shift bellows. Seems to be a clone of the more famous kopil bellowsmat.
Unfortunately mounting a regular M42 lens ends up in closeup/marco area, without much options to have some tilt&shift fun.

I guess you usually mount enlarger lenses on such aparatus.
I am seeking for a particular look, trioplan-like, so I guess a triplet design, max tessar type should do the trick.

What I am struggling a bit is to find the right focal length.
For what i intend to shoot, focusing distance appx 1-3m is sufficient.

Do you know any good triplet/tessar enlarger lens I could use?
M39 thread is a bonus, since i have a M39/42 ring, M23.5 ( meopta ) is ok too but i will need to order a custom 3D printed part..

Thank you for tips.
J


#1

[calvin83]

[Alsatian2017]

I only have the Minolta Auto Bellows III which offers the tilt-shift function in the front part. In order to obtain focusing to infinity and full tilt-shift ability, I can only use lenses with focal lengths between 100 mm and 135 mm. Right now, my favorite lens for this purpose is a Vivitar VHE 100 mm f/5,6 (aka Schneider Componon-S) which is much too well corrected for your purpose - a simpler lens like the PZO 105mm f4.5 Amar/S might be a better option.

[blotafton]

If it's going to be used with the lens wide open a projector lens might be better. There are many 100mm lenses with a triplet design. The best choice being a Diaplan or Pentacon AV. More or less the exact look of a Trioplan.

You might need an even longer lens to get that working distance, but that's just a guess.

[Jozef_AV]

[/quote]I think you can mount trioplan to it if you have the shutter version.

M23.5 to M39 ring can be found here Click here to see on Ebay.[/quote]

which version is that? the pre-war one?

[Jozef_AV]

[Jozef_AV]

[calvin83]

[e6filmuser]

You need one with a large image circle, large than the format of the camera.

[Jozef_AV]

[simple.joy]

The Polaroid MP4 Tominon lenses might be an interesting choice. They are a family of lenses, available in focal lengths of 17, 35, 50, 75, 105 and 135 mm Single lenses or groups of them can often be bought for really reasonable prices as they were manufactured in high numbers. The shorter focal length lenses are only usable for macro work, but I think the 50 mm lens might already have an image circle big enough for some t/s experiments. It can produce interesting bokeh and under certain conditions even slightly Trioplan-like bubbles, but there are other lenses (unfortunately most regular taking lenses with smaller image circles) which seem better at that.

The 135 mm Tominon though is excellent at creating bubbles (in my limited experience even more effective than the Diaplan):

Ballways online by simple.joy, on Flickr

Here's a comparison with the Diaplan 100 mm f/3.5, which might also work great, but I feel like the Tominon 135 mm has the nicer bubbles overall and better contrast:



The Tominon 105 mm might work in a similar way, but I wasn't able to test it.

If you decide that you use different lenses for t/s work and the Trioplan-like shots, the Domiplan might be a good (cheap) candidate for emulating the latter as well, if you can find a good sample:

Nothing too fency… by simple.joy, on Flickr

[Jozef_AV]

Hello simple.joy
Thanks for the tip, I didnt know about Tominon lenses until now. Results are indeed nice.
Are those enlarger lenses, or taken out from a polaroid medium format camera?
Saw some pics on the web with Copal shutter mechanism which immediately reminded me of old collapsible medium format cameras with prontor.

As for the domiplan, so far i have stayed away from them, due to mixed opinions.
Instead opted for steinheil cassarit/auto-cassaron, they can be found cheap and are totally worth it.

Still, I dont think any of the standard fullframe triplet lenses will help here.
In order for the bellows to be able to tilt it has to be extended by a couple of cm, exceeding the M42 flange distance even with a slim M42/e-mount adapter and going straight into closeup territory,
Also the lens should be able to cover a field larger than 24x36 for the T/S to work properly i think.

J

[simple.joy]

[Jozef_AV]

@simple.joy

Its impressive that you could do a tilt shot with a domiplan. Respect!
I can't do it, not even close, tested with M42 triplet Steinheil auto-cassaron, 50mm f2.8

Maybe i am doing something wrong.
Bellow pics illustrate my issue ( please excuse, bad lighting met ever worse PP skills )

1) Going with the slim M42/Nex adapter for closest possible fit.
Even when fully collapsed, the whole setup is way thicker than any regular adapter, at 5-6 cm appx., way overshooting M42 flange, acting effectively as a marco ring.
Goodbye infinity, hello closeup photography.
Besides, I can't tilt the front anyway, there simply no room to do it.

2) Extending the bellows to some 7-8cm on the scale gives enough room for full front tilt movement, but now with a regular 50mm lens i am close to macro territory.
Noticed also when tilted, my corners cease to exist.

My goal is to have a trioplan look with tilt/shift fully operational somewhere at 1-3m focusing distance.

So far the best option seems to be an enlarger lens with bigger flange distance, ideally 100mm+ FL, covering 6x6 or 6x9.
I sadly don't see any way it could work with regular M42 or similar lens.


#1



#2

[jamaeolus]

You mentioned trioplan. You also mentioned medium format bellows (folding) cameras. Search for a Balda camera with a Trioplan 75mm in it. It should do precisely what you want for 60 to 80 dollars. To mount it remove the lens from the camera by unscrewing the jam nut. Drill a hole just big enough for the threaded portion of the lens in a m42 body cap (5 ish on ebay) use the jam nut on the back to keep it firm. This will give aperture control as well. You will need to set the shutter to "B" and hold the shutter release down. I use a rubber band, but tape or silly putty would also work.

[calvin83]

[Jozef_AV]

[simple.joy]

[jamaeolus]

I've not tried the cassar. But I have used other folder lenses to good effect.

Here are some shots with a helioplan manufactured probably in the early 1930's judging from the dialset shutter. Be sure the lens is as clean as possible. Uncoated lenses exaggerate dirty glass. But because they are uncoated they usually clean up well unless they have been abused. Which unfortunately is not that uncommon. A friend told me "did they think their lens would benefit from a good rubdown with 100 grit sandpaper? "

http://forum.mflenses.com/meyer-goerlitz-doppel-anastigmat-helioplan-75mm-4-5-t81872,highlight,%2Bhelioplan.html

[calvin83]

[Jozef_AV]

[Jozef_AV]

[kiddo]

I've used the trioplan 7,5cm 2.8 from Balda, very easy to remove and adapt m39 ring-m42 helicoid. I wouldn't call it the sharpest lens, contrast is low also, but depending on the results you're looking for, it's still a nice lens. The shutter I keep it open with a spring, a hood would help this lens a lot . There are some dots on the glass that I wasn't able to remove (inner elements), looks like schneideritis, probably coatings affected , and they are visible in the bokeh rings sometimes.
Overall ,for 10-20€/$ it's still an interesting lens to explore , but don't expect results from modern lenses. These are very old lenses,but mine has got totally clean iris with lots of blades . Theres a 5cm 2.9 version Trioplan , that I'm not sure I would need , same folding camera

[Jozef_AV]

[Jozef_AV]

BTW, during search for my "special" lens, i stumbled across this page.
Contains a list of most know enlarger lenses + details about lens construction ( elements/groups ), mounting thread, frame coverage, on some even the flange distance at infinity...+references.

https://www.photocornucopia.com/1061.html

Might be worth checking out to some.